Would you risk your cash on a new brand boat?

[Nautorius]

Hi All,

The recent controversy over a forumite becoming a boat dealer has raised what I consider is a pertinent question.

How effective is a new boat manufacturer going to be in entering the UK market because of the current economic climate around boats and the poor track record of non-UK manufacturers being successful?

The only recent example of this being done well has been Nautical with his Absolute Range. However for every Nautical there is a trail of others who did not succeed well, think MG Boats, Galleon (first time round), Faeton, etc and then those which have not done as well as expected, Uttern, Finnmaster, Yamarin, Viki, etc. I know of one forumite who was involved in trying to bring in a new boat range which collapsed rather spectacularly (although not down to him/her personally)

So how do you ensure success as a boat importer and would you buy one off Jez? After all you are betting a large amount of cash on a new boat (without pedigree in the UK) in a difficult market place where resale is already becoming an issue. Even if the boats are as expected (first rate) and that Jez can be trusted (no doubt in my mind) would you risk epic proportions of depreciation if it did not work out? Would you be safer buying an S34 even second-hand) than the W34, an Aquador 23 rather that a W24 or a Cap Cammarat 715 WA rather than a W23? I know with the Benneteau Monte Carlo this was a big concern with most people even though the dealers and brand was known.

So what are your thoughts?

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

With the current situation on fuel perhaps the best option might be slow displacement or sail. I guess a maker of twin diesel flybridge craft is going to face a reduced market, unless pitched solely at rich bonus spenders or politicians on expenses...

 

[MedDreamer]

Paul

I can say quite categorically that no, I would not buy a new boat.

The stories on here recently regarding quality issues added to the huge depreciation hit make it a complete non starter for me.

I would much prefer to pick up a 2-3 year old sorted model on which someone else has taken the financial hit and sorted the snagging. I like to see exactly what I am buying. I'd rather pay a good Surveyor before I buy than a lawyer afterwards.

 

[D3B]

I did buy a new boat!
Not only a new boat but a new model, so double trouble bubble.
Two years old now and it seems all the problems may have finally be cured/resolved, including the fourth canopy! Though I reserve judgement for the moment.

Have met a few people who have bought new and everyone seems to have some sort of problem. Some serious, some cosmetic.
I think its the reaction you get from the dealer or manufacturer that counts.

Regards the new venture of Mr B. I suppose it will depend on the support he gets from the manufacturer.
Hmmm just a thought. Volvo and some other manufacturers of fitted items tend to deal away from the dealer for warranty.....Jez did you check?

Doug

 

[gjgm]

Money,money,money.
I think with new boats, there are enough people making quite enough money to buy new. Er, not me, but...!
And if thats the boat you want, thats what you are going to buy.
Look at cars over £50k.. there are zillions of them these days...Look at second homes in holiday areas..
There s plenty of money about in some quarters.
Me, I wouldnt buy new as I cant justify those first few years hit. Cant really justify the following few years hit either, but never mind that!

 

[KevB]

I bought a new boat just over 5 years ago and I still have it. Part of the reason for new was we were fairly new to boating and the 3 year warranty (as it was then) on the Volvo's and a 5 year hull warranty made it less of a worry.
We also got £10k more part exchange for our old boat than we paid for it and a good deal off the retail price.

Now I have 5 years and 700 hrs worth of boating experience and all the knowledge gained from these forums I wouldn't buy new again. I'm more confident in knowing what to look for in a second hand boat.

 

[AdeOlly]

I think it's an extra tough task at the moment. It's difficult enough to establish a new brand at any time, but extra factors at the moment are:
>Uncertainty over the impact on used prices from the loss of red next year.
>Increasing interest rates.
> The house price bubble - if this goes pop there will be lots of boats for sale and fewer buyers of new and used.

On the plus side, Scandanavian boats are well respected here, and if sensibly priced and well supported should sell better than some of the offerings from other parts of the world.

Persoanlly I won't be risking my cash on a new boat 'til the uncertainties have subsided.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

[ QUOTE ]

So how do you ensure success as a boat importer

[/ QUOTE ] Sell Botnia Targas. Constant and growing waiting list - next slots are in late 2008 - and Wessex Marine are now the biggest sellers of Targa's in the world.

 

[benjenbav]

I can't imagine buying a new boat for what I currently want which is UK based, using the boat when I want, just for my own purposes. However, I have toyed with the idea of having a boat based in the med and if I did that, I would want to charter the boat as much as possible when I wasn't using it. That would almost certainly mean buying new and I would be inclined to stick to the big names.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Hello,

I would check the building quality of the maker and try to have some reviews...
for example Absolute you mention is a good young brand, but personally I dont like the other brands you mentioned in the post...

this my 1st Post Hello to everybody from Sunny Malta in the middle of the med we have 28 degrees today...
have a nice week

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

As with any new venture, there is no way of ensuring success but the Botnia Targa success story shows the way, I think. It's a stand-out product with little competition that has carved out an enviable reputation in the market. And thats what you have to do. It's pointless trying to push a me-too type product in an already crowded market. For example, the chances of successfully introducing yet another US petrol powered sports boat to the market or yet another 40ft twin diesel flybridge to the market are virtually nil
As far as jez goes, I think he has a chance because the market is going to go towards cheaper to run single engined/diesel boats and the Westlines look a bit different and, coming from Scandinavia, have a good image. But it is'nt going to be easy

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

still Deleted User

i think if you look shop around there are many quality builders giving more value for money then some other builders.
I think the main problem in England is that the market is too much stagnated with its own builders and never really gives a chance to other builders. May be only Cranchi and Azimut have made a step in the UK market only after many years of trying to get in.

BTW That Ferretti 460 is a fabolous boat...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Thanks nettuno but it's a Ferretti 46 which actually is a bit bigger than a 460. The 46 has the same layout as the current model 500
Yes, I agree with you. There are many overseas boat builders who build boats just as good as the UK builders and maybe offer a cheaper price too but what counts in the market is perception not reality. The UK market perceives that UK builders offer the best compromise of value/quality and hence the secondhand prices are higher. It is very difficult to break this perception because when people spend such a large amount of money on something like a boat, most prefer to play safe and buy something that they know

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks nettuno but it's a Ferretti 46 which actually is a bit bigger than a 460. The 46 has the same layout as the current model 500
Yes, I agree with you. There are many overseas boat builders who build boats just as good as the UK builders and maybe offer a cheaper price too but what counts in the market is perception not reality. The UK market perceives that UK builders offer the best compromise of value/quality and hence the secondhand prices are higher. It is very difficult to break this perception because when people spend such a large amount of money on something like a boat, most prefer to play safe and buy something that they know

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah compare that quality from the Top Italian Builders and we know that all UK builders are a step backwards, still I must admit that especially Sunseeker and Princess have improved a lot and raised the bar of quality for the UK
but when one considers the Spanish who where not known off about 10 years ago have the same quality that is not much a deal

 

[1971Lou]

I was looking new but too expensive, so now looking secondhand, however after reading the gludy story and the horrors that you could get into there is no way i would buy a new boat from a start up company with no money behind it, for me even spending £60k it is a massive amount of money, there is no way i would just hand it over to a company that has just been set up and the director has had to sell personal belongings to get it up and running, plain daft and dangerous if you ask me. even if a well established agent had taken on the brand the risk of the boats being worth 50% less after a year is real when you see the hits that even more established non main stream brands are taking.

i read in a motor boat magazine that you should stick to the main known brands that is what i am going to do because i cant afford to lose my money either before the boat arrives or if it falls apart after delivery and the company is not worth anything so i can't reject it because if i did and they went bust before i got a replacement i would lose everything, i read about that in gludy post

i am looking at sunseeker which is the world leader

 

[Nautorius]

Lou,

You have obviously never set up your own company. You raise capital to set up a new business by leveraging your personal assets. What Jez done is correct. He also has other assets which he has not leveraged. New dealerships do include more percieved risk but when a dealer like Deva goes under owing £500k to customers...it shows you that there is little protection.

Apart from that you have posted a very sensible and in some cases, reasoned post, well done you may yet add to this forum!

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[andyball]

[ QUOTE ]
am looking at sunseeker which is the world leader

[/ QUOTE ] in making sunseekers.

 

[[2068]]

If I had the money, twould be a Princess, not a Squeaker.

dv.

 

[andyball]

a Westline, surely?

 

[[2068]]

The Westline V45, to be precise.

dv.