would you pole out a storm jib?

[jimi]

Interested to see that poling out the storm jib when running under jib alone was proposed in This month's YBW article on heavy weather sailing. I'd think that having a pole out in heavy weather is an accident waiting to happen.What do you think?

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[tome]

Sounds dodgy to me, my storm jib LP is only 8ft 6in and the pole is almost 15 ft. Also, the sail is cut high with a bottom wire tack pennant to get it clear of the deck, so the spinnaker pole would be up somewhere near the spreaders!

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[StugeronSteve]

I would have thought it dodgy to send anyone uot on the foredeck in storm conditions, whatever their nationality.

<hr width=100% size=1>Semper Bufo

 

[Evadne]

Ah, you'll be needing one of them "storm spinnaker" poles.
If I had to do a dead run in storm conditions, given our narrow beam, a small pole would probably be sensible, if I had one, to stop the jib backing - much as we do under normal conditions. But given enough sea-room it'd probably be easier to keep the wind more on the quarter instead. And I certainly wouldn't want to be waving a big spinnaker pole around on the foredeck in storm conditions.

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[ParaHandy]

jings ... from my recent experiences oop north with the hoi polloi around Melfort way, they have extendible poles which scrunch down to large brolly size but would require the right length of string (to detach the jib sheet) be cut, which action, seems to get the auld goat who owns the piece of string attached to the pole which is attached to the auld steam cruiser in a grumpy mood ........ there's just no satisfying some folk ......

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[claymore]

Para - dy'e hae yer address sae's ah kin send ra bill fer ra string - it wiz 3 quid

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Claymore<font color=purple>
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[ParaHandy]

thon wuz nae ra story ye telt us ... youse got the whole shebang fer less than ma auld age penshun, including ra dishcloth ....

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[claymore]

yin wiz fer ra benefit o dear heart - protectin her frae ra true cost o sailing - 3 quid it is.
Anyways we've banjaxed this thread nicely

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Claymore<font color=purple>
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[Twister_Ken]

What do you think?

Think? Who? Me?

Did once go downwind in a race, like loads of wind (45 kts without the gusts) with storm jib set flying as a spinnaker. Looked funny, worked well, went faster than those who stuck to plain sail, and wiped out less often than those with a proper spinnaker up, so pretty good all in all.

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[Peppermint]

Re: No I wouldn\'t...

need to. If you need to pole out your jib when your mains not blocking it your sailing a bit deep. Come up 10-20 degrees or so and you'll get a better ride and a bit more go.

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[aod]

People who write crap like that have never tried to do it. You can run down wind with much bigger sails like a 2 or 3 using the same as a kite but if a storm jib is hanked on using a pole is bloody stupid.

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[Jacket]

They were talking about a boat in a race ('79 fastnet?). So you've got to remember that they had a large crew, and they were after as much speed as they could get (and handle).

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[jimi]

I did'nt see that in the article I read, where there were talking heavy weather sailing strategies. The suggestion was to pole out the jib when running under jib alone in order to stop the jib flapping about and not about race strategy.

I have a serious problem with this

1) Setting up the pole on the foredeck in these conditions would be downright dangerous.
2) If the sheet goes there is a risk of the pole whacking the forestay and potentially bringing down the rig.
3)much risk of damage with the pole potentially whanging about, even perhaps hatches cracked
4) Difficulty in heaving to if required.

All in all a very bad idea I thought.

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[Jacket]

They did comment that they only recomended this method if you had a strong, plentiful and experienced crew.

As for your 4 points, I agree with 1, but in the sort of conditions we're talking about, the pole should be restrained independently of the sail, and a third sheet should be led through the pole to the storm jib, so that it can be sheeted in or tacked without taking the pole down, so points 2,3 and 4 shouldn't be a problem.

I've tried this method once. Admitedly the boats only small, so handling the pole's not too bad, and the conditions were unpleasant rather than downright terrifying, but it definately made the boat much more controlable. Yes, I could just have steered 20 degrees off a dead run instead, but this made helming very hard work. On a run, with the storm jib held rigid, the boat more or less steered herself through everything except the breaking waves.

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[jimi]

If you can set that rig up when you're bouncing around in a F8+ then I take my hat off to you! I know that it was a problem getting the main tamed & stacpaced in a F8+ in reasonably uncomfortable conditions never mind pratting about with a pole. The more lines you get out the more potential for tangles etc!

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[MainlySteam]

You might find that the small sail area you are handling makes all the difference if you are talking about your own boat.

On a 40 foot boat the storm jib is likely to approach 3/4 the size of your mainsail (I think your main is probably around 160 sq.ft whilst our heavy weather jib is around 120 sq.ft and the storm one not much less) and the difficulties and dangers of handling a pole on a sail that size out on the foredeck in a F8 upwards as Jimi says, is likely to be quite alot different.

John

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[Jacket]

Yes, I agree. I wouldn't do it. But they're racers, and who said they're sensible? the V60's fly spinnakers in 45+ knots.

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[Jacket]

I was already running before the wind got up, so the pole was rigged. As I didn't fancy getting the pole down, it seemed sensible to use it on the storm jib.

If the pole wasn't already rigged, I probably wouldn't have bothered. As with most sailing, there's no correct answer to cover all situations. In this case using the pole was the easiest route to take, an it worked well.

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[jimi]

Jacket .. to be absolutely clear the Article on P82/83 makes absolutely no reference to racing in connection with this strategy.

I quote "If the wind continues to increase and you are running before it, lower your mainsail and run with just the storm jib. It may help to boom out the jib clew with the spinnaker pole to prevent the sail from slapping from one side to the other."

And neither would I rig a gybe preventer in heavy weather either. If there was risk of a gybe I'd get rid of the main. I would not want to get caught aback in a gale with a jammed gybe preventer, and yes I normally rig 'em so they can be released from the cockpit, but they can still jam .. and yes you could cut it, but that would give you the very crash gybe, if aback, that you're trying to prevent.

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[tome]

I'd dump the main also, having been on a fully developed F9 crossing where we accidentally gybed the main. It broke the boom and could have brought the rig down. I came up from below during the gybe and the mainsheet caught me across the face and nearly lifted me overboard, I was badly rope burned from ear to ear.

When we lifted the remain of the broken boom, a sea threw us backwards into the companionway. The crew next to me broke 4 ribs and had to be hospitalised on arrival, when they also insisted on bunging me into the (French) ambulance. My face was badly cut and swollen, and I had to survive on liquids for a week!

I'd rig a preventer back to the cockpit up to a moderate sea, but would certainly dump the main in rough conditions with a following sea. I can honestly say that the spinnaker pole would remain securely stowed and I would rely on trying to keep the jib flying by taking the seas on the quarter, perhaps even using engine power to help with steering.

Conditions like this are no fun to be in and I'd keep the sail plan as simple as possible. The crossing I refer to was many years ago when we thought that we were up to it, I believe I have a bit more savvy these days!

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