Would you make a good surveyor? New training course

[luddites]

Surveyors get a lot of stick on this forum, some deserved some not. It is obvious from some of the posts here that many forumites have a wealth of small craft experience and would make good surveyors after some practical training. At present it is possible to gain "diplomas" in small craft surveying entirely by distance learning without ever leaving your PC.
Well call me old fashioned but this job is about hard won hands on practical experience. Here is an overview of the course:


The course will consist of four weeks (arranged as two separate fortnights) of intensive practical training plus one optional specialist week covering wood construction, leading to application to the Yacht Designers and Surveyors Association for Membership at Affiliate level. The practical weeks are not classroom based, the training centres around a variety of real boats under actual survey conditions. The course is most suited to individuals who have some practical experience of yachts and small craft and is not suitable for those with no experience.
The practical training will be supported by illustrated modules and practical “how to” guides to all aspects of the survey process, plus a compulsory reading list. Prior to the practical weeks delegates will be expected to study this material in depth.
The intake to the practical weeks will never exceed 15 delegates and the group will be subdivided to ensure a good tutor delegate ratio. Each practical week will culminate in the delegate undertaking a survey of the area covered during that week. His report will then be dissected and returned to him with a critique before the next practical week. This continuous assessment will enable the college to tailor the course to fit individual requirements. During the final week delegates will undertake full surveys on steel and GRP and produce reports which will form the basis of their application for YDSA membership.

More details from www.ibtc.co.uk

 

[Guest]

Why is this being posted on multiple forums ???? Is it that you are connected and promoting it ?? Or seeking comment ??

 

[jonjo]

Re: Surveyors and bus passes.

The surveying landscape is going to change over the next 5 years because some of the most established names in the business must be due for retirement quite soon.

Maybe the YDSA know this and wish to encourage formal training.

To put some perspective on the situation, volume GRP yacht construction picked up during the 70's and by implication the second-hand market did the same 10 years later. Surveyors need a 40+ face for street cred hence the 40 somethings who moved into small boat surveying during the 80's will now be looking at annuity rates with more than casual interest.

 

[Sixpence]

Re: Surveyors and bus passes.

That's me in then /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Guest]

Re: Surveyors and bus passes.

I'm 50 .... so what's that do for me ??

I'm annoyed that the post has been made and Mr. Luddite hasn't come back with an answer ... I've goaded the gods on R2R ... questioned here on SB ... and silence.

IMHO - there are some real shiesters out there and there are some excellent guys ... membership of TSB's holier than thou Association does not automatically infer Excellence onto a Surveyor - many of the best I know refuse to consider membership. But a REAL authority to govern and licence may not be a bad thing - as long as it is does properly. I was assessed by 3 Govt. bodies before I was acredited to Marine Surveyor ... not in UK I add. The situation in UK still previals atht anyone can set-up, PI is available to anyone with cash to pay premium, membership of body such as YBDSA is no hardship to obtain - as they do Affiliate based on a few reports written and assessed by them internally ... in my case when I looked at years ago - it was submit a number of reports to them on various constructions and be accepted as Affiliate member till later upgrade to Full status ...

The best assessment of any surveyor in UK at this time and I am strong for this - is local reccomendation and Boatyard gossip. If a guy is a shiester - it soon gets bandied about.

I must add that I am skeptical of many "official" governing bodies .... we only have to look at Gas, Electrics and other and we can all relate horror stories ..... so how do you get levels of competence increased ??

 

[graham]

Re: Surveyors and bus passes.

SBC Has it occured to you Luddite could be away sailing for the bank holiday and will probably reply on his return.

Your constant deriding of the YBDSA (which we all know has some very good surveyors as well as the odd useless bug£er)Is unhelpfull to anyone trying to chose a surveyor .

I do strongly agree with you that local recommendation is the best qualification.

 

[jonjo]

Re: Surveyors and bus passes.

I don't get it, what is your point?

In a single post you have indicated that you are a more professional surveyor than YDSA members because you have been assessed by government bodies, you are scornful of the low entry requirements of the YDSA, conversely you have doubts about statutory assessment bodies (e.g. CORGI) and agree the best option is to wonder around a boat yard scouting for a name.

The bloke who needs a surveyor probably has a busy job some way from the coast and will be disconnected from boat yard chatter as he doesn’t currently own a boat.

On these forums we have previously discussed the potential problem of a highly qualified big business marine surveyor odd-jobbing in small boat surveying and messing up. The YDSA has fulfilled a proven need for 20 years, some of the most respected names that crop up on this forum e.g. Staten-Bevan and Hoppy of Hamble are members.

 

[luddites]

too cold on the boat

so Nigel I am back. The story is this:

my name is Paul Stevens. I am a surveyor who thank goodness works mainly on the east coast away from the madding (mad) crowd.

I am a long established surveyor and always busy so I must be doing something right. You can read what is called blog these days on my website www.paulstevenssurveys.com I am 53 and have been a member of the YDSA for quite a few years.

For the last 3 years I have developed and led 1 week practical surveying courses at the IBTC Lowestoft for students following theory based diplomas. These have been highly successful and the overwhelming feedback from the delegates is for more on site practical training. Two other surveyors are involved and they are from various backgrounds including a very experienced and eminent member of RINA. Between us we have about 60 years surveying experience and we are all practical people with boatyard backgrounds. The new course is specifically aimed at those with boatyard and small craft experience who wish to pursue a career in surveying. So the 3 of us have developed this course in order to pass on all those little practical tests and wrinkles we all develop over the years and which are difficult to put into print, things like examining a hull several times during the survey as the light conditions change, the use (and abuse) of moisture meters etc etc, but using real boats under survey condiitons.
The YDSA's most senior and experineced surveyors have scrutinised our course and have chosen to endorse it because they feel it has something to offer the small craft surveying field. However the course is open to all and will be a good grounding for application to any orgnisation who have small craft surveyors as members. I emphasise however that the course is practical and not a fast track route to anyhere, it is designed to complement theoretical study and other theory courses. In particular it is designed to help those with good theoritical knowledge but no practical experience. At present for most in this situation there is no choice but to set up in business and get the experience on the hoof, potentially to the detriment of their clients. We see our course as bridging that gap and an altogether more satisfactory route for all concerned, but it's not perfect nor all embracing. We aim to train surveyors who are competent to start on basic commissions but who may initially prefer to pass on more complicated and specialist work.

I will not be drawn into any debate about other surveyors or organisations, save to say that there are good bad and ugly in all walks of life and local recommendation is always best when anyone requires a surveyor.

Sun's come out again, i'm off down the boat.

Cheers Paul

 

[Guest]

My reply is on R2R .... but basically ...

I applaud your scheme based on you later post. The first post smacked of vested interest. Sorry but it hit home.

I hope it is a success and if I was in UK more - I would offer any assistance I could.

 

[Guest]

Re: Surveyors and bus passes.

But I cannot recall about Big-Biz Surveyors ... ??

YBDSA are not my "cup of tea" for reasons in the past that caused me serious doubts .... and one of the most serious complaints involved one the most well-known "members".

Second ... Statan-Bevan is not a member of YBDSA - he is it's President - or whatever he likes to call the position now.

I happen to have knowledge about some decisions taken some years ago involving RCD etc. that unfairly affected some of the best Surveyors I know ...

I do not profess to be the best ... I quoted my own assessments in answer to others so that I could get the thread back onto its track again.

"Luddite" has now "owned" up to the interest and being actually involved in the course. He has also expanded on its ideal and why it was offered. I agree with him and am proud that someone has actually done it. Other courses in the past - have not been so humble and accept the value of previous experience.

As to YBDSA - let that be your choice if you wish. I do not use the letters to decide whether that surveyor should look at my boat - yes I am not allowed to survey my own boat !! - I use reccomendation and also my own knowledge of locals. But I am lucky in that I can draw on that.

As to a new buyer - are you saying that a New buyer is in such short time frame that he doesn't have opportunity to scout boatyards looking at boats, talking to people who are working on their boats etc. etc. How many times on the forums have I and others said - look at boats similar to what you are interested in by visiting boat-yards, talk to owners, check out notice boards / clubs etc. Get as much info as possible ... weekends find people on their boats ... THEY work as well you know ....

Sorry but I am not convinced by the argument against.

Sorry but I also do not want to claim expert or better than others ....

I want the playing field to be level and fair. In fact if I was more in UK - I would even consider a place on the course if Mr. Stevens evaluation / comments are realistic. We never stop learning.

 

[gjeffery]

Re: Surveyors and bus passes.

Have to question why an otherwise respectable course does not conform to the norms of academic validation and professional accreditation through the Engineering Council?

If the graduates are accomplished professionals, they should be permitted to describe themselves as such.

 

[luddites]

external validation

Our course is practically based and we therefore intend to have it accredited by City and Guilds which already has a long standing relationship with IBTC Lowestoft having validated existing courses there for many years.

 

[Sixpence]

Re: external validation

The only comment I'd like to add , is that the courses all seem to be aimed at those that are able to take weeks at a time to attend . There is no way that someone already working would be able to do any of them . I would be interested in doing some of the courses myself , but I have a business to run , and if I take a two week holiday I lose clients .