Would a personal epirb have saved the ouzo 3?

simon_sluggett

simon_sluggett

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Having been shocked by the news of the sinking of ouzo and her crews awful fate, I have been considering the what ifs and wondered if a personal beacon would have saved these guys. Could they be the most important piece of equipment you could buy as a coastal sailor and not just for oceon going crews. In the event of sudden catastrophic sinking, liferafts, flares, DSC, etc are all pretty useless wherever you are, arent they?
But if you fell in the water in normal oilies and a beacon would the rescue services get to you before you died of hypo anyway?
Also Im a little confused about the technology. You have 406hz and 121hz. some are dual freqency others not, which are better? Isnt 121 being switched off soon?
 
While you can't be certain I think that there is a very good chance that had they had an EPIRB at least one the first person recovered would have survived (on the grounds that he had signs of hypothermia - the other two may have drowned within minutes of entering the water).

I am guessing the with an EPIRB a lifeboat would have turned up within about 2-3 hours and most people would not suffer from hypothermia in that time.

I think all 406 EPIRBs also transmit on 121 - that frequency is used by SAR to home in on the casualty once they are in the vicinity. A PLB that only operates in 121MHz is useless as an alerting device
 
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Also Im a little confused about the technology. You have 406hz and 121hz. some are dual freqency others not, which are better? Isnt 121 being switched off soon?

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121hz Epirb's are still the basic requirement for survey in Australia. It is still the frequency used by aircraft. 406hz is for transmitting to satellites and then on to ground stations. 121hz is line of site to ground stations or aircraft, if you have commercial aircraft in the area at say 30,000 feet then the 121 hz units are still very practical. Search aircraft can home onto 121 hz just as easy as 406 hz.
In a previous life I was Navy aircrew. You pop that aerial on your 121 hz unit the response is almost instant.
 
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I am guessing the with an EPIRB a lifeboat would have turned up within about 2-3 hours and most people would not suffer from hypothermia in that time.


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Not disagreeing at all..

But I think 3 going off at sea within a small time scale would have had the ferry turned around and helo's up etc.

A single might take longer.

I was considering an ebirb for the boat but now think I will buy a pair of personal 406 to go on our lifejackets.

Or should it be 3 units?
 
Maybe - but VHF is basically "line of sight" - and you can't see much from bobbing up and down in the water. I wouldn't count on more than a couple of miles range from the water.

Mind you - it would allow you to discuss the finer points of Colregs with the b******d who had just run you down
 
I think if thet had a gps epirb that India Juliet would have probably been on the scene within the hour. My friend had to activate his EPIRB of Falmouth a few years back and he was a bit suprised how quickly the Navy helo arrived.
 
Just to clear things up....
121.5MHz is the aero distress frequency (roughly equivalent to ch 16). Satelites used (I think still do but not for much longer) monitor for 121.5 distress signals from EPIRPS and use doppler to get a (not very accurate) position. Long haul airliners usually (although not always) tune in 121.5MHz and so might hear the characteristic distress tone and hence alert the Coastguard, but with little accuracy with regard to position (line of sight at 36000'?)

New beacons transmit on both 406 and 121.5MHz. The 406 bit talks to the satelite, which derives a position or receives a lat and long (if there is a built in GPS). The lifeboat/helo/Nimrod will home using the 121.5 bit. At present 406 is not used to home to.

I would imagine that if the crew had personal GPS EPIRBs, were wearing lifejackets, were adequately dressed and had survived whatever it was that put them into the water, they would have had a very good chance of being rescued.
 
Surely, 406 v's 121.5 is academic unless there is a GPS linked to the signal.
Does everyone ensure their GPS is switched on when sailing short distances in familiar waters, to enable their DSC to function fully, giving a position in an emergency? This can easily be forgotten. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

One PLB marketed by a 'major' company, has this GPS facility.
However, it will sink when dropped, will become u/s if immersed more that 1 metre & when initially produced had no lanyard attachment. You also have to lift a tight fitting cover to enable the distress button to be pressed - there is no water activated auto-send system similar to one of the 121.5 PLB necklace units/Full size EPIRB.

"Where do I keep it"? I asked. "in your jacket pocket" was the reply!

So, imagine the scenario, I am Mob at 0300 hrs in April in the English Channel. As well as the obvious panic/shock of a very cold dunking, I have to (1) remove my gloves (bulky ones due to the cold at that time of year) to enable me to retreive the PLB from my pocket (2) carefully grip it to prevent it also becoming MoB & sinking (3) with now numb fingers, try to prise the cover open (4) press the distress button (5) pray that the immersion hasn't been more than 1 metre.(6) assume the correct position to the waves to prevent water entering my mouth/deploy visor which was attached to my lifejacket pouch. Easy ain't it! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

So would one have saved them?
 
A couple of years ago I was in minehead Harbour having a beer with some of the lifeboat crew who had had a bbq earlier. their pagers went off and the boat was launched. They were responding to an EPIRB.

The 3 crew members of a small racing type catamaran were brought ashore with the remains of their 20 foot catamaran which had suddenly collapsed in a choppy sea.

The bridge beams had collapsed pitching them into the water . I think without the personal Epirb their chances could have been slim .
 
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A couple of years ago I was in minehead Harbour having a beer with some of the lifeboat crew who had had a bbq earlier. their pagers went off and the boat was launched. They were responding to an EPIRB.

The 3 crew members of a small racing type catamaran were brought ashore with the remains of their 20 foot catamaran which had suddenly collapsed in a choppy sea.

The bridge beams had collapsed pitching them into the water . I think without the personal Epirb their chances could have been slim .

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Thanks for repeating that to us. Its the brilliant thing about this site - one can get really good practical feedback based on real situations - so much more valuable than the 'armchair expert' opinions.

JOHN
 
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Thanks for repeating that to us. Its the brilliant thing about this site - one can get really good practical feedback based on real situations - so much more valuable than the 'armchair expert' opinions.

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Who was that aimed at?

and why?

It is posts like this that scare away people from the forum who have lots to add.

... plonk
 
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I think if thet had a gps epirb that India Juliet would have probably been on the scene within the hour. My friend had to activate his EPIRB of Falmouth a few years back and he was a bit suprised how quickly the Navy helo arrived.

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That Navy helo would have probably been the duty sar crew on standby for this very purpose.
The aircraft and airfield towers, plus all commercial and military aircraft monitor 121 and when an EPIRB is activated, the signal in the cockpit is certainly hard to ignore. Only a bearing of the contact is known, but with bearings from ground stations and other search aircraft a fix is available.
The only real delay is getting the aircrew out to "kick the tyres and light the fires" and of course the transit time to your position.
Just a point on handheld VHF, in my years as Navy fixed wing aircrew we were involved in many rescues. The aircraft could not communicate with boats on marine VHF frequencies, we could occassionally get the HF to work with the 27mhz frequencies. Modern helos can now. EPIRB's crap over handheld vhf and mobile phones, but they are better than nothing.
 
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Thanks for repeating that to us. Its the brilliant thing about this site - one can get really good practical feedback based on real situations - so much more valuable than the 'armchair expert' opinions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who was that aimed at?

and why?

It is posts like this that scare away people from the forum who have lots to add.

... plonk

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You may sign off as a plonk but I suspect your not really that bad.......

My response was to compliment the actual experiences shared, showing the value of the EPIRB in the rescue he described. As opposed to armchair experts who've never had that practical exposure.

If my comment has somehow touched a sore spot - then I'm sorry.

And I'd change the sign off.

JOHN
 
EPIRB's crap over handheld vhf and mobile phones, but they are better than nothing.
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Not sure I understand this statement.

You obviously have 'sharp-end' expertise in this area, so, are you saying that VHF & mobiles are better than EPIRB's?

Could you please explain, ta!
 
I too am mistified to this statement. Mobile phones have a knack of loosing signal/battery/all will to live when wet and cannot be homed to. Hand held radios are better if within range. Fine in high traffic density areas, useless around here. Aircraft do not (cannot) monitor ch 16. Moreover, the exercise of triangulating the position (fine if there are enough ground stations in range) and/or homing to the signal (which relies on the physical/mental state of the casualty) is fallible. Personal EPIRB with integrated GPS has to be the best solution if only because the human factor element is eliminated when it comes to determining and passing the position.
 
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