World Cruiser or Elective Suicide

leewilson

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Hi people, I have been reading all your posts with much interest and I wonder if you might give me the benefit of your obviously superior sailing knowledge. (grovels obsequiously)

My Goddess and I, who have mostly coastal sailing experience, have taken leave of our senses and decided to jack it all in and sail around the world for a few years (or forever whichever comes first). Unfortunately, grand designs and finances are uncomfortable bed-fellows and I want a big boat for cheap - I plan to renovate an old one as my carpentry skills are something I have for free. Anyway to my point; Would any of the following be suitable for serious (NOT southern oceans or unseasonal oceans) off-shore or ocean cruising?:

A 40ft Hillyard with a draft of 4'3'',
a converted zulu fishing vessel 50ft,
ditto herring-boat 43ft.

Of the three I think the Hillyard is probably the prettiest and most yachtlike, however she has a very shallow draft and I am concerned she may heel over more because of this; or does her full displacement hull prevent this?

The fishing boats have certain advantages like wide beams and I read somewhere that they are stable in rough sea's (??) but would that include a bit of a thrashing in the Atlantic?

Given a choice of the above (regardless of length) which would you opt for to do a world cruise, or would you consider it foolhardy in any of them?

Thanks very much and I look forward to you responses

Lee
 

npf1

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can't comment on the boats that you have suggested but have you considered that it may cost far, far more to buy and renovate a poor condition boat than it would to buy one in good condition. And that's not even taking into consideration the time, frustration and matrimonial strife that often accompanies a big renovation projects. If you've made the decsion to go, then setting off sooner rather than later is surely an important consideration.

Finding a good used boat takes time but there are older, hence affordable, boats out there that have been cherished (often with no expense spared) by their owners. IMO, these make the best budget buys. As a boat get's older EVERYTHING is down to condition and upkeep. However, sad though it may be, a pristine well equiped version of a particular model will often sell for only slightly more than than an average one. Remember also that even the best used boat is going to require some money throwing at it to get it ready for your adventure.

For what you're planning to do, my recommendation would be to seriously consider buying a boat from soemone who has just finished their adventure. That way, you have a boat that is likely to have all or most of the equipment (and spares) and, importantly, has been used regularly (lack of use causes perhaps more problems than overuse!).

If you haven't read it yet, have a read of Sell up and Sail and some of Nigel Calder's books.

Hope that helps. PM me if you need soem further info.
 

leewilson

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Thank you for your comments, far the most part I agree with what you say and it has been something that we have both considered. We came to the conclusion though that as we want a wooden boat it would be wise to know that everything was sound from the off; far more easily acheived if you've seen her down to the hull. Also with a boat that has just returned while there will be more equipment, from what I've seen so faar most would need replacing so there is little or no benefit to paying for it.

I fully agree with what you say about an older boat though hence we are looking for a wooden one but lets be honest, the idea of a comfortable interior in 1920 is somewhat less than acceptable to SWMBO nowadays. She want a classic looking boat with a modern interior and I have found it prudent to give her what she wants. Thanks again for you comment
 

Peterduck

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I would go for the Herring Boat, with the zulu as a second choice. I have a fondness for ex-fishing boats, and I reckon that if they are OK for someone to be working on for most of the time, rather than hanging on with teeth and toenails, then they should be comfortable enough for the rest of us. They are also built with a solidity that is very reassuring when everything turns pear-shaped.
The weakest link, though, is usually the crew, not the boat. It's easy to think that "Yeah, I can take the rough with the smooth", but the rough gets very rough, and can keep going for longer than than most of us can. You really do have to look yourself in the eye with a brutal honesty, and "Know Thyself!"
Peter.
 

chippie

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I think a major consideration would be whether the boat is easily singlehanded.
If there is only going to be the two of you , it would be prudent to allow for incapacitation through sickness or injury.
I agree with the others who say get a boat in the best condition you can afford and work on her from there, if you want to go voyaging rather than rebuilding.

Good luck with it!
 

leewilson

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I have to say I agree with the point about getting one that can sail from the off. If its in the yard then it doesn't matter how good she sails; she's still a shed til she hits the water.

The single handed point is one we discussed and so long as lines all come aft and theres a radar with a really load alarm most mistakes or lapses in concentration shouldn't be unrecoverable. But again if anyone wants to show me otherwise I'd rather learn it now than in a force 9.

ta
 

Mirelle

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Something smaller?

If there are only two of you, why such a big boat? The expense of repair and upkeep rises very fast with size. The sails, rigging, gear, etc all cost far more, also.

I would not consider a retired fishing boat for a voyage into tropical waters where deterioration takes place much faster.

By way of example, a perfectly nice, quite recently built, iroko, Wanderer Class changed hands here a couple of years ago with plenty of change from 20K - needed a new engine but that was about it. You could - no - let me be blunt - you would - spend that on fitting out a bigger boat before you left the yard.
 

leewilson

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Re: Something smaller?

I did wonder that about the size and its affects on the maintenance costs but we keep reading threads where ppl are advised to go for bigger because of the weight carried on longer trips. Are you saying that this is a minor consideration and that a smaller one could carry all that we want to take like bikes, diving gear (a fair weight on its own), stores for a log sojourn, etc. If this is the case then I think I should look again at the shorter boats.

Can anyone with a smaller boat tell me if they encountered any problems with overloading, or am I seeing problems where none exist?

Also I've seen boats in the 20k regeion but they all looked like they needed gutting. My budget is for 50k but I can only spend 30k before the house is sold which makes life more complicated. Please advise a good all-rounder for this price. Reasonable stability on all but the most windward direction and at anchorage but not one of theses flat bottomed modern things with the tiny fin as they seem to squirm a bit in a current. Fibreglass seems to be excluded based on the dryout requirements (please no discussion on osmossis) as we will be permanently living aboard. Wood is prefered as I can work with wood and at least it was alive once.

ta
 

stevesales

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Re: Something smaller?

Look to the US of A. The dollar is no longer almighty and there are some good blue water boats going cheap.
I wouldn't have anything to do with wood (except to use on our woodburning central heating). This might be related to a nasty experience with Lady Patricia (a Bristol Channel cutter rather than a titled YL) I nearly bought in my youth until the round hole in the deck was found to match with an unexploded 250lb bomb in the bilge.
Nowt wrong with fibreglass.
 

stevesales

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Re: Something smaller?

Impact greatly reduced by passing through many inches of rotting wood, hence no big bang.
When the poor Lady was finally blown up on the mudflats near Steepholm not much came back to earth.
 

Mirelle

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Re: Something smaller?

Well, I think I just did mention a class of boat that has been round the planet a few times!

More in this size - the Carr's "Curlew" and the Pardeys' "Taliesin".

Personally based on living and cruising aboard my own 37 foot boat a few years ago (she is a small 37ft - 27ft w/l!) I would advise not taking the kitchen sink. Be absolutely ruthless in eliminating non-essential kit.
 

Peppermint

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Re:Any form of sailing

is more about people than boats. Yacht Mags are full of unsuitable boats making incredible voyages. You don't need to be particularly skilful, though sound basics are a help. To cross oceans you do need to be highly motivated and very determined with a fair dollop of ingenuity thrown in.

Your chosen vessel needs to be of a size that you can afford to buy & equip. If you can understand & repair all of it's systems then all to the good. There is always a trade off between ultimate seakeeping and habitability. Only you know where your going to settle between the two.

You need to develop systems to cope with the singlehanding issue. I find that most boats up to about 60ft can be singlehanded, in open waters, if the equipment is in place. Sensible sail plan and big enough winches being the main considerations.

The Hillyard sounds right.
 

milltech

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I agree with that. It will be much cheaper to buy a boat that had the refit you're contemplating four to six years ago. Systems will still have life in them, boat will be up to the mark with only very small items needing attention, and the vendor will have had the enjoyment and enough time to get over the money he spent getting there. Even with your free labour, and even if you are a qualified shipwright, you will need skilled help and several truck loads of new and very expensive equipment.
 

webcraft

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I suspect that an attempt to sail a large old converted fishing boat round the world on a tight budget is a recipe for disappointment (at least) and possibly disaster . . . suggest you get hold of a copy of Last Voyage by Ann Davison.

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Ann Davison and husband Frank spent years, all their money, blood, sweat and tears converting an old yacht-hulled fishing boat, the Reliance, back into a yacht - so their boat was more suitable than most fishing vesssels. In dire financial straights they set out from England to sail around the world in 1949, but didn;t get very far. The boat suffered numerous problems and was too much of a handful for the couple when they encountered bad weather and their high adventure ended in sudden tragedy. A howling English Channel gale sent their old, 70-ft. ketch Reliance crashing on to the rocks off Portland Bill, and Davison was drowned. Ann told the story of that ill-fated trip in a bestselling book, Last Voyage.
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Personally I wouldn't countenance a big old wooden boat, especially a conversion - why not get a heavy old GRP boat like a Warrior 35 (from £25,000 or less for one that is tatty but solid) and use your joinery skills to make the accommodation as comfortable and woody as you like. Of the boats you suggest only the Hilliard could ever be a proper sailing yacht, and they don't have that much room below compared to newer designs - or at least the two I have been aboard didn't.

Big boats cost money however you slice it, and if you are on a budget and want to get all the way round it is probably a good idea to start on the smallest boat you can imagine living on. The oft-repeated advice to buy the biggest boat you can afford does not always look ahead to running costs and repairs when gear breaks or wears out, to say nothing of slipping and berthing costs.

Sorry to be negative, but your original post just bought 'Last Voyage' instantly to mind . . .


- Nick
 
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