Working our way towards a decision ...

[segaerta]

Hi all, back again with another question as I'm getting more and more confused and afraid to spend part of my hard earned cash and take a similar loan at the bank so need your advice again.

Looks like we're definitely set on a Bavaria Open Cruiser 35. I posted couple of days ago about Bavaria and got some good replies, mostly from Mr. Banks (so thanks a lot, Jez).
It looks like a fair trade off between quality and price, above all one we can afford. So please bear with me, even if you prefer a hartop or any other brand than a Bavaria's.

We plan to keep the boat for a number of years ... I know, nobody believes this but unfortunately I can't afford to buy another boat every so many years, hence we opt for a young boat.

There are a few on the markt at an interesting price. Have only seen first boat (off course immaculate), other two not visited yet but planning to do so this week-end.

1/ 2007 with D4-225 and 10 hours, 2 months in the water and still 22 months VP guarantee (owner upgrades to a Bav 42), very few options (no nav hardware, DSC, ...). Price : 185 k€ incl VAT (approx 125 k£)

2/ 2005 with D4-260 and 110 hours, fresh water boat (Rhein Germany), no guarantee left, most options (except GPS / Plotter). Price around 165 k€ incl VAT.

3/ 2005 with D6-310 and 140 hours, full option, not sure about guarantee : Price 185 k€ incl VAT

Other ones still in the UK, same year of built but all above 200 k€.

Now, question time :

1- which one would you choose from engine package point of view and construction year - do you prefer a younger boat with no hours and very few options but with almost entire guarantee or a 2-3 year old boat but with lots more options ?

2- still not sure about the D6-310 package for a Bav 35 cruiser : too heavy hence too much nose up ?

3- if opting for boat # 1 : would you find it necessary to do a survey and/or engine oil analysis ... after all the boat has just been delivered ?

4- In terms of marine financing, does anyone know if I could apply for a mortgage or marine loan in any EU country ? Suppose rates are cheaper in the UK, would it be worth to take it there ? If yes, what are best options ?

5- And to make it even more confusing ... there are brand new Bavaria 35' (model year 2006-2007) with twin petrol engines to be bought at advertised rates as low as 135 k€. I know resale value would be less and consumption higher but with red diesel disappearing, would similar package in the end (incl financing cost) not be a better alternative ?

Life can be hard ... hope some of you can help me out.

Cheers,
Alain

 

[gimmesunshine]

maybe buy new and spend 50k euro putting in diesels of your choice
how much heavier are d6 over d4?

 

[segaerta]

Twin D6's are 200 kgs heavier than D4 so probably does not make a hell of a difference on a fully loaded 8000 kg boat ?

However the new 37 (which replaces the 35 and is presented at Southampton Boat Show coming September) is no longer offered with D6's bit with D4-260 or D4-300.

Surprisinly enough, also not with a pair of D4-225's ... why would that be ?

Buying new is no option ... well above 200k€ and outside of budget range for today.

 

[Whitelighter]

Answers to your questions (publically this time /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

1. I would go for the 2005 D6-310 HP boat. I think for resaleit is always best to have the biggest engine(s) available in that configuration. Fuel consumtion increase will be neglegible, and the extra weight is around 100kg per engine. By the way, low hours is not a guarantee of trouble free boat (trust me on this point). At 2-3 years old the value has started to level out. The more options you have (including bigger engines) the better.

Also, boat will nearly do 40knts, which is pretty good. To see how the different engines impact speed etc this gives a rough comparison Volvo Penta Engine Configurator. Just fill in the fields.

2. See above

3. Yes. Do a survey. Maybe not oil analysis as the engines/drives are under VP warranty. Though on a £140k boat, spending an extra £300 sounds a false economy to me.

4. Theoretically you can. However, the Euro base rate is much lower than the UK rate. Euro base rate is 3.87% against the UK bank rate of 5.75% and the FHBR rate of 6%. Almost all marine mortgages operate as a fixed % above FHBR (some will offer Bank) in the UK. Curiosly, I have funded my new boat with a UK bank using a Euro loan (I am buying in euros) and it worked out significnatly cheaper. My funding is only about £35k, and I am paying 2% above Euro base rate, so 5.87% in total. I would expect for a loan of around £75k you would get a rate of around 1.7% above Euro. I guess what I am saying is shop around. There are also variuos lease schemes available through French, Italian and Maltese companies, but these only really give a VAT saving (new boats) and aren't cost effective on this sort of balance.

5. Hmm. That is a tough call. Don't forget, even though the actual fuel will cost about the same, the petrol voat will use twice as much. If you only want to go short journeys and low hours per year then it might be worth considering. However, despite red going, I still beleive diesel boats will hold a good premium over petrol boats, so you stand to get a good chunk of the additonal money back when you sell, plus you will only spend 50% on fuel. If you are going to keep the boat for many years diesel will still pay dividends.

All IMHO.

Happy hunting

J

2.

 

[Whitelighter]

[ QUOTE ]
Surprisinly enough, also not with a pair of D4-225's ... why would that be ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect the D4 225 is not long for this world. VP will launch the D3-210/220 (there is some debate over the power) soon, and either way at 1/2 the weight of a D4 engine it will make the 225 a bit redundant.

The D4 300 has had the same effect on the D6-310, which is no-longer available. Lighter but with similar power.

 

[segaerta]

I'm offered a 5.95% 10-year fixed intrest rate on 125k€ loan. Are better offers available ?

 

[segaerta]

Would you really want to do a survey (incl lifting out / in) for a brand new boat with 8 hours on the engines and 22 months of VP warranty left ?

Alain

 

[Whitelighter]

If I was spending that amount of money, yes I would.

Regardless of age, it might have been dropped, had a collision, had an engine problem not covered by warranty. He says he is selling to upgrade but that his his word. probably true, but I wouldn't want to find out after I had paid the money. For the sake of £1000, on that value of boat, do it.

 

[Chris_d]

Don't assume because its a nearly new boat it will be fault free, if it hasn't been used then there maybe loads of snags still to be sorted out, and the supplying dealer may not be interested in helping a second owner. Most new boats seem to need 2-3yrs to get fully sorted, even if its only properly equiping them with all the stuff that didn't come from new. The 2005 boats have to be the savvie buyers choice.

 

[lovezoo]

Agreed, I think you would be mad not to get a survey when you are spending that kind of cash. In all likelihood the surveyor will spot something you haven't noticed and may even save you money on the purchase price.

 

[gjgm]

there is something to be said for either buy the boat, or play the currency markets, but dont link the two. I can assure you that there is no free lunch here. If you pay in one currency and borrow in the other, you expose yourself the the exchange rate moving, and guess what.. if you hedge your currency exposure, rates equal out (to about the 4th decimal place!). Still, if you are experienced and confident that you can read the risks, its can be one way to reduce costs. CHF rates are 2.75pct, for example.Could increase them quite a bit, too, so make sure you know what risks you are running, and you can manage them.

 

[segaerta]

[ QUOTE ]
had an engine problem not covered by warranty

[/ QUOTE ]

Are there engine problems that are initially not covered by VP warranty or insurance ?

 

[Whitelighter]

It could be. Maybe he ran the engine dry of oil, it didn't have its first service, maybe the leg struck something and he didn't have underwater mechanical cover, maybe there is damage due to neglegence that his isurance doesnt' cover.

Ok, these are extreme things, but wold you bet your house on a dead cert? Even if there was the slightest risk you could loose, just to gain £1000?

Have a survey done.

 

[segaerta]

OK Jez, you got me convinced now.

Things are progressing well, may well take the decision this weekend. Then sort out all the paperwork etc ... hopefully some cruising weather still in Sept - Oct.

I'll keep you all posted on final outcome. Thanks for all the advice so far.

Cheers,
Alain