WORDS OF CAUTION REGARDING CONTACT ADHEISIVES

[Jcorstorphine]

Having just replied to a posting regarding side linings and the use of Contact Adhesives, I felt I must reiterate my words of caution to any of my fellow Practical Boat Owners who are contemplating such tasks.

Back in 1982 I was completing some work in my motor sailor and was gluing several square meters of carpet to the side of the hull using a glue called Thixofix and was overcome with fumes. Initially I just felt poorly but within a few days I had developed acute liver failure accompanied by chronic jaundice. For any medical men out there, my “Billieruben” level had reached almost 600 (which is bad, bad, bad,)

In all I spent a very miserable month in hospital and a total of four months off work caused by exposing myself to the fumes from this particular contact adhesive.

Words just cannot describe the trauma of being convinced that you are going to die because of your own stupidity. You have lost two stone in little over a week. The whites of your eyes have turned a greeny yellow colour.

Your skin which has turned a yellowish grey colour and itches 24 hours a day due to all of the bile being secreted that you scratch so much that the sheets of the bed are covered in blood in the morning.

The only relieve from the itching is to get into a boiling hot bath laced with Sodium Carbonate. The bath has to be so hot that you are on the verge of scalding yourself to get relief from the itching.

Trying to eat, tires you out so much that you have to rest even after the smallest of meals. Everything you try to eat tastes foul and worst of all, it is about three years before you can even take a small glass of wine.

Be warned, use the correct type of mask, it must be for organic solvents, a dust mask is worse than useless.

 

[graham]

Serious stuff. Have you considered asking PBO to publish your story so as to reach a wider audience?

 

[VicS]

I have recommended the use of an"organic vapours" mask several times on this forum and have heard some scary tales in the past but absolutely nothing like yours.

It sounds as though you were lucky to survive, lets hope there is no permanent damage to any internal organs that will catch up with you later in life.

Note though the limitation, !0 X OEL or 1000 ppm, which I mention in the thread on side linings.

I don't remember how much I paid for my mask but your experiences show that it was worth every penny.

It would be nice to think that the PBO magazine editorial staff read their own forum and might see fit to print your story. We'll wait and see.

 

[ashanta]

There was a recent post regarding headlining replacement etc and I offered the person contemplating this job my mask whick I bought from Hawke house when I did a similar job. There were very good at advising me on my project and made it very clear about using the appropriate mask.
Your Post is very important and relevant to us all DIY'ers. Well done. I do hope that you are now fully recovered.

Regards.

Peter.

 

[Mirelle]

Yikes! I had no idea!

Fairly harmless stuff, I always thought...

THANK YOU for that post and I hope the magazine ask you for an article along the lines of your posting here.

 

[Gunfleet]

Great post and timely. I have story to add, though very minor compared to yours. As a youngster I worked in a car factory. Esposure to oil has left the skin on my hands highly sensitised - I can't fill the boat with deisel without getting an itchy rash. Wear gloves, even if it doesn't seem necessary, when dealing with any oil based products.

 

[boatmike]

Very sobering story John and I echo the thoughts of others in hoping that you are now fully recovered. Having been involved in boatbuilding most of my life I have experienced the intoxication of very mild exposure myself and as my previous post suggested, seen cases of more serious exposure but nothing like your experience which sounds dreadful. Did you actually pass out on the boat and therefore continue breathing the stuff for some time or was it just bad luck that you were particularly sensitive to it?
On a practical level, I endorse what has been said about filter masks. Particulate filters are a waste of time and if you rely on one that is designed to filer out fumes it has to seal properly on your face (difficult if like me you have a beard) and I still don't trust them even then. Far better is to use a respirator which supplies clean air from outside. Most professional boatbuilders use them but of course its a bit of an investment for an amateur. One tip which is effective in reducing (but not eliminating) the fumes is to use an extractor which can be cobbled together using an industrial vacuum cleaner. Try to stand the unit outside in the cockpit or route it through a hatch to the working area. It will at least encourage an air flow in to the area to replace the air drawn out. This will assist, but not eliminate the need for, a face mask. Every little helps.... Also of course useful when using resin in any form to avoid breathing styrene all day long.....

 

[nedmin]

Not only do you have to worry about fumes,one of my friends was using contact adhesive in his kitchen,some years ago and was sticking down sheets of formica on his worktops,having a break he lit the gas for a cuppa and a sheet of flame flashed thro. the kitchen fortunately he was ok. He had to redecorate the kitchen again!! as it was covered in black.

 

[snowleopard]

good point - working with a lot of the stuff in a restricted space is probably worse than what glue-sniffers do and it occasionally kills them.

do you have any permanent effects from your experience?

 

[squidge]

Thank you for the warning, i was unaware that such thing can happen. I have used Evostick in the past an came away with a head ache.After reading your post i for one will treat such things with a lot more respect in future.
Glad you are still here to tell the tail.
rdgs.

 

[Superflid]

Bloody hell! Thank goodness you pulled through that......

Will be taking your warning very seriously. Thank you.


Far less serious, but something I found the hard way. Metal fume fever, caused (in my case) by grinding old anodes off an outboard. Not serious in the long term, but very unpleasant. I now use a simple dust mask for jobs involving old anodes....... Info here

 

[MacW]

Being one of the `old worthies` of Port Edgar on the Forth I do remember John`s troubles being widely discussed there at the time, very much along the lines of `there but for the Grace of God .......`
I think it was International Paints who did a series of health and safety seminars for its boat painting centres, including a demonstration where a (daft) volunteer stuck one hand in a can of solvent and sensors attached to his other hand detected the solvent in 16 seconds flat!
Be warned,in heavy air concentrations, like inside the confines of your boat, these solvents can be absorbed THROUGH THE SKIN ! You should cover up well,minimising skin exposure. Warmer weather makes the whole thing worse.

 

[snowleopard]

lots of other nasty stuff around the boatbuilding industry. epoxy resin can cause you to develop an allergy which lasts a lifetime. polyurethane paint is toxic when sprayed. yet i know a man who's spent a lifetime using angle grinders on GRP and never wears a mask. (no- i don't advise that!)

 

[Viking]

Re: I wonder?????

About two years ago (seasons) I refixed some loose side lining in the fore cabin, with some contact glue. Since then I get a itching, which feels like after a sunburn, on different parts of my body(arms, back). Which only something cool seems to relieve. Also, which is even worse, I can not drink any alcohol. The slights sip and I have to throw-up. I been to the Doc's had tests on food aliages but without any findings. Your symptoms, although mine are much milder, now make me wonder!

 

[kimhollamby]

Paddling in it

I once saw an overseas boatyard where the labour was cheap and the laminators were WALKING the resin into the mat with bare feet.

Fewer instances of that kind of thing on more recent visits overseas. For example Gulf Craft in Dubai workers seemed quite well kitted up with safety stuff although their on site sleeping accommodation seemed mostly to be formed of converted packing cases with airco units stuck out the side, which was a bit of an eye opener.

For my part I got a (probably mild) case of styrene poisoning once after working in an unventilated space on a newish boat for rather longer than was probably prudent. Didn't even realise until after I emerged...and then struggled to walk unaided.

 

[ongolo]

Re: Paddling in it

I sprayed an methylated spirit based etch primer in my cargo hold. I wore a mask with a carbon filter, not sure it it was the right thing, had a fan blowing in, have a beard, was as sick as a dog when I came out. For three days I was not quite normal. Was sacred negociating the ladder up the boat.

After reading this, I never take chances again, and I took so many. Not cleaning my hands with thinners either as I have always done.

Thanks for the warning.


Ongolo

 

[huldah]

Re: WORDS OF CAUTION REGARDING solvents

I remember two incidents of solvent problems. The first was driving back from Plymouth to Bristol in a new mini van, and feeling increasingly unwell. After about an hour I decided to pull into a layby and sleep. For some reason I changed my mind and went for a walk instead. As I got back into the van the smell hit me! A half gallon bottle of CTC had rolled and smashed. I wonder what would have happened if I had slept?

Shortly after the company banned Carbon Tetra Chloride, because of organ failure, which I think involved the liver. Alcohol increased the damage.

The second incident was funny, even if potentially serious.

I was using up some old rubber glue in a small workshop, when I became transfixed by the little creatures that came bouncing along the floor. As they reached me they bounced up, went through me, and away into the distance. All the time they were making a sound that sounded like bumble bumble bumble........

I then found myself in a lift, going down, down, down........ Finally the lift stopped and I was left feeling that I had had a strange but interesting experience.

Philip

 

[Cutter]

John
An excellent post. You were lucky to get away with as little long term harm as you did - especially as your bilirubin was as high as that. Do have your liver function checked periodically - a blood test. Watch the booze - the liver does regenerate but the toxins are additive.
I remember varnishing some deep cupboard shelves with a non-toxic varnish and getting as high as a kite - had one beer and couldnt stand up. Seemed funny at the time but not in retrospect.
I agree this should be a warning in PBO - as Kim has posted he may take note.
Richard

 

[Jcorstorphine]

First of all, many thanks to all who have asked after my health following my exposures (through my own stupidity) to organic solvent vapours emanating from Thixofix glue. Well , yes I did make a reasonable recovery but never totally regained my original vitality and ability to work all day and all night.

My limit for alcohol even 23 years on from the original exposure to these solvents is only about two or three glasses of wine and spirits is a total “no no” so although my liver has recovered it cannot process excess alcohol. I think in my case I have previously started to “load up” my system with toxins by working in a Research with just about every nasty chemical known to man. As “Cutter” mentioned, all of these toxins are additive and I think my problem was that by exposing myself to a pretty hefty dose of toluene from the glue, my system just collapsed.

I still shudder when I walk round boatyards and see people working with all sort of chemicals while working on their boats and not using suitable masks. The smell of any of these solvents just turns my stomach and I have to get “up wind” of anyone who is applying paints such as antifouling.

Just to reiterate the warning, if using any liquid which warns of “volatiles”
WEAR AN ORGANIC SOLVENT VAPOUR MASK

Regards

John Corstorphine

 

[longjohnsilver]

A salutary tale John, I think you've mentioned it before on here but certainly bears regularly repeats.