Wooden Masts advice/knowledge sought.

Bejasus

Bejasus

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We are currently looking at the purchase of a 45ft ketch which has square section wooden masts and spars, about which we know nothing. Not sure if they are spruce or Douglas fir. Are we correct in thinking that it will be a box construction format? Cables run up the inside/outside? Halyards are run up the outside. They are all currently painted white, and I guess any problems will be picked up during survey, but what should we look out for? Reefing systems?
 
Do you know who the designer of the boat was? Square section masts suggests to me an American origin. They could be either Spruce or Douglas Fir [Oregon]. A clear finish can be a pain to keep looking good, but at least you can see the condition of the underlying timber. When it is painted, all that you can look for is any irregularity in the surface which may herald nastiness underneath. Take an ice-pick or similar sharp probe to have a poke at any dodgy looking spots. Particularly pay attention to the surrounds of any fittings screwed to the masts and spars.
Peter.
 
boat is a Hardin Voyager 45, William Garden designed(Taiwan ketch) built in Taiwan in 1980. I haven't come across any particular problems with these masts when researching the type, so not aware of any particular nasties at this time. Thing is, I guess if they are in good condition, then I guess there is no real reason to rush out and replace them with modern ones, especially considering the costs involved in doing that. I think that if everything goes ok with the survey, then it can wait until the rigging is replaced, in a few years time, unstep the masts then, strip them back and go from there.
 
Main problems would be with glue line failure of the sections. However, if the glue is modern, it will probably have a life of in excess of 30 years. note any cracks in the white paint running up & down. Square section hollow masts have solid sections at base, head and at spreaders usually. Douglas fir is good, longer lived than spruce which is physically lighter and surface softer. Usually no fastenings whatsoever other than attachment points of fittings.

John Lilley
 
Do be careful with those 'Taiwan Takeaways'....Tap every part of the masts (and deckhead too) with the handle end of a quality chisel...The ringing sound changes very clearly to a dull thud when you find soggy/voided/filled areas..Lots of dodgy plywood, and questionable construction used and covered in beautiful teak,unfortunately.
 
I used to sail one of those in Hong Kong (a company boat belonging to my employers).

Masts were varnished and were OK but the mainmast panted fore and aft quite alarmingly in a head sea due to the lack of an inner forestay.

The boat's other peculiarity was that the gearbox overheated. This baffled sundry ships engineers, who sailed the boat at weekends, and flight engineers who sailed her in the week (the "deal" was that the airline crew had her Monday to Friday and the shipping line had her at the weekends). It was eventually established, by way of a telex to the builder, that the Perkins was made in Spain not Peterborough and had been marinised by the builders, using a wrong handed prop so they fitted it to drive stern through the ahead geartrain. The chap who answered the telex rejoiced in the memorable name of Seadog Deng.

Not a bad boat, on the whole. Sailed nicely. I would replace the plumbing, if not already done.
 
plumbing seems fine. Had a bit of a sea trial with the original owner who came and skippered for us for the day. He purchased it new and had it shipped from the yard to Greece, where it has remained. I think he was also the Ford Lehmann agent in Athens at one time and had the engine changed to a Lehmann 6 cyl 120 hp, from the original which was a 65 hp 4 cyl. Anyway everything seemed fine on the day, except he had a sad look on his face as he had really loved the boat and had her for 22 years before selling her to the current owners. Still, I told him we would be back that way in a few years and he would be more than welcome to come and look around again.
SWMBO is a bit of a varnish freak and loved the boat, especially as we had the chance to spend a night aboard at anchor, in the big bed in the aft cabin.
 
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SWMBO is a bit of a varnish freak

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That reminds me, George, I may need to borrow Theresa for a bit of brightwork. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
No chance Forbsie, I have her booked to come down to Englander at the end of the month, her name is already emblazoned on one of my best "Copenhagen Gold" varnish brushes!! She comes over all starry eyed at the smell of "real" turpentine.

George!!! Stop worrying about the effin masts!!! The surveyor will/should check them. You can make sure he goes up in a bosuns chair and inspects them, not a big job. I do believe the masts are put on in the states, not Taiwan. Painted masts are normally much better preserved than varnished ones, the paint protects them better than varnish from UV etc. and lasts longer and is easier to keep up.
 
Best check her bags when she leaves, coz she may well become attached to such a superb brush which in turn could save me quite a few shillings. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I think the masts are likely to be the least of the problems. The crap quality ply used for coring of decks and house is likely to be of much more concern. A teak deck screwed down onto a GRP deck with a ply core - which is how these boats are usually made - is a big job to fix, although possible. The screws allow water into the core which rots. This leads to spongy decks and leaks. The house will be the same. Particularly check where that lovely teak trim is screwed on. Water gets in, the core gets soggy and you get drips.
Been there, done that, got the tee shirt!
 
SWMBO will be arriving in Palma on 28th and leaving again on the 6th.

Surveyor apparently only does up to head height, and this boat was never in the US but shipped directly to Greece from the yard in Taiwan, according to the original owner.
However, right now I am more concerned with timing etc, re house selling/work/boat buying/boat selling etc.
 
Pity I dont get home until the 7th!!! But I'll instruct Belinda in what is required of her! She is NOT allowed to drink rum! Especially that in the rum barrel! Hope things go OK with the sale etc. Be in touch. Dont forget what I said about berth etc!
 
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