Wonder what C&E's response will be?

[rickp]

Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://icteesside.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0001head/tm_objectid=14401090&method=full&siteid=50080&headline=i-ll-sail-on-with--booze-boat--name_page.html>This</A> will be interesting to watch. How long before someone does something similar for diesel if/when we lose the concession.

Rick

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[longjohnsilver]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Yes, heard it on the radio 30 minutes ago and the same thought crossed my mind.

Will be interested to see how they fare with gales. Presume they are anchored. C&E are bound to try and shut it down.

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

I think its been done before in the Med with an offshore tanker selling untaxed diesel but I believe the French Customs fined boats coming back into French waters
Whatever the article says, I cant see that its legal. If you buy anything outside the EU which is effectively what being 12 miles offshore is, then you have to pay VAT and duty on it in whichever country you land first whether its for personal use or resale. The concept of Duty Free was abolished in Europe some while ago
Whatver the situation, I really hope the guy is right.

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[longjohnsilver]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Just heard an interview with the chap shown in the photo, you'll see he has a bandaged hand. Seems he had an argument with a winch handle and had to call out the lifeboat. Not a particularly auspicious start!

He also said that yesterday at 2330hrs 2 jetskis turned up to buy some fags! 14 miles out at sea?! If it's true I bet thay had no nav lights. He also sed that they're gps batteries failed on the way back to shore and they arrived at the wrong port! How he found that out I don't know and am not sure I believe it.

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Thinking about it, I guess its not illegal to sell duty free goods outside the 12 mile limit, the illegal bit is when the buyer of said goods brings them back inside the 12 mile limit so I cant see that C & E can shut him down. They'll just sit on the 12 mile limit stopping and searching anyone who looks as though they've been shopping

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[PaulF]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Yes that is an interesting one.

It is my bet that C & E will do everything they can to shut it down. We have major problems with illegal drugs pouring in to this country, the taxes are fixed so high on legal drugs like cigs and alcohol that people are very sorely tempted to try and get round it from our 'common market'.

Who knows what the legal position would be? Are we allowed to bring in cigs and alccohol for our own use from anywhere, or is it just from EU?

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[jhr]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Just from the EU. Elsewhere, the old "duty free" rules still apply.

The idea of the EU is that taxes get harmonised across the Union (cf Red Diesel). Evidently, there's some way to go still.........../forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[PaulF]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Just heard on the news, the guy selling the goods buys it from Germany legally, tax paid. He came on the BBC just now and said they have researched it carefully and there is NO MORE duty to pay. That should PO C&E!

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[DepSol]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Already thought of that one and have 4 investors interested in the project of selling white diesel from a tanker 13 miles off the IOW.

Also have a boat that will be just right for it coming up for sale in 3-4 years time.

I hope the guy does well.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>

 

[PaulF]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Atta boy Dom! thinking ahead.

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[DepSol]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Well when you think about it its obvious really. Diesel price doubles and you can sit offshore offering people it at the same price as 2004.

It will only be out there from 1st March to 1st October and we already have a commercial radio station who want to be on board also so that sorts out our advertising and also a good portion of our costs.

Can easily get a Phillapeano crew together and pay them peanuts and get all my MCA gear cheap through the business. Who knows all the fuel in this tanker might be pre additised with Soltron as a bonus.

Can anyone think of a name for a Radio Station that wil broadcast just for boaters?

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>

 

[DepSol]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Well when you think about it its obvious really. Diesel price doubles and you can sit offshore offering people it at the same price as 2004.

It will only be out there from 1st March to 1st October and we already have a commercial radio station who want to be on board also so that sorts out our advertising and also a good portion of our costs.

Can easily get a Phillapeano crew together and pay them peanuts and get all my MCA gear cheap through the business. Who knows all the fuel in this tanker might be pre additised with Soltron as a bonus.

Can anyone think of a name for a Radio Station that wil broadcast just for boaters?



<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>

 

[PaulF]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Oh Buoy Radio?

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[DepSol]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Actually I could look at getting it sponsored by a radio manufacturer so call it Ray Marine Radio or Icom Offshore Radio eh John?

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Listening to R4 news while driving home, and they were reporting this. C&E say they will be taxing any merchandise brought ashore from 'Rich Harvest' - no details on this though

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[steverow]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

All legally OK Dom until you put the radio station on.
The original Marine broadcasting act which came in to force on 14th august 1967
was modified in 1974 and then again in the 1980's.
It was strengthened considerably and now gives any EU country the right to board
a broadcasting vessel that does not have a broadcasting licence issued by an ITU signatory country.
The trick here would be to get a licence issued by some african country and use that.
For background info investigate the "Volans" incident and the Boarding of the Ross Revenge in 1989. www.radiocaroline.co.uk.
However I doubt that these days having a licence would stop the authorities.
Boarding the Ross and smashing up the transmiiters and studios was essentially legalised piracy carried out by the Dutch Authorities with "at least" the tacit approval of the British government.

My guess is also, with regard to the fuel project, that like marine broadcasting they will harass and make it as difficult as possible to operate, as they did with Caroline and Laser in the mid 80's by stationing an observation vessel close by and monitoring every move of supply, tendering and making arrests where applicable.

I think that you could reasonably expect a customs cutter to be close by your fuel ship, just inside the 12 mile limit and it would stop and board and generally agitate vessels that had taken on fuel from you, as it of course has every right to do, possibly collecting import duty as well.

People would soon get fed up with this enough to dissuade them from using the facility.

It is also notoriously difficult to transfer fuel from vessel to vessel in any kind of swell.
On the radio ships it was often done by winching barrels up on to the decks.
I assume that you would be looking at some sort of pantograph hose rig, but without the use of a specialised receptacle on the receiving vessel would be a bit like mid air refuelling on a tornado in anything but a calm sea.
A lot of small boat owners would probably take fright after their first experience of this.

Have a look at the radio ships experiences of the mid to late 80's for a lot of background info as they are virtually parallel concepts.

Steve.



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[DepSol]

Re: Wonder what C&E\'s response will be?

Cheers for the info.

The station in question has a broadcasting licence and where I would be stationed would come into there area.

A stabilised floating pontoon would be down the side of the ship to allow people to moor next to it and drop a fuel line down much as they do from the wall at harbours. If it becomes a problem a secondary pump unit could be built on top of the pontoons to even things out.

It would be very difficult for Customs to prove how much fuel was taken on board each vessel. It would be a good point to refuel before going to France or the CI then what can they do. How many boats can they actually stop without being out there 24/7 and if a boat was stopped and reported the position back to the main ship people could avoid that direct return route.

If Diesel loses its tax free status then there is no need for it to be red so Customs cant say either way exactly how much you have on board thay can assume but then that becomes a problem legally as everyone could potentially receive a reiept for 5 litres but with every 5 litres purchased at £12 pl you get 250 litres free or summat daft like that.

Any way got a few year to see what happens.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>

 

[jfm]

Hang on Dom......

Dom, just on the proof point, that isn't correct. The law simply allows Customs to make an estimate. They then assess the tax/duty. The taxpayer (boater, in this case) then has to pay up or appeal, and if he appeals the onus of proof is on the appelant.

So the point you make about customs not knowing how much diesel was bought doesn't hold water, I'm afraid....

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[tcm]

Radio station name

choose from

Radio Iffy
Radio Weak and Feeble
Radio Dodgy
Radio Check
Radio Busted


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[Wiggo]

Re: So what?

If the fuel is bought in the CIs now, you don't have to pay duty and vat when you get back to blighty, do you? Dom's only talking about a CI duty paid fuel barge just off the IoW, so I can't see why HM Thieves & Excess would have a case.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham.wignall/boats/eulimene600x800.jpg>The old and the new</A>