With regard to several threads on DSC radios

[Becky]

being so afflicted with non-actionable alarms that apparently people turned the sets off, would it be a good idea to keep our existing VHF radio and fit the DSC VHF set as well, so that we could still keep a watch on Ch 16 (on the old radio) without the continued blaring of the DSC alarm on our superduper new DSC set?
'Course, I haven't quite worked out how to connect 2 radios to one aerial yet. Neither has HWMBO, and he is very clever. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[npf1]

you can buy antenna splitters to use two radios from one antenna

 

[Oldhand]

For reception only maybe but I have never seen a splitter which would allow you to transmit without blowing up the inactive unit. I reckon you must have 2 antennas if you have 2 VHF's and you want transmit capability on both.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

If the second set is only to be used for reception then a piece of wire will pick up what you need for night passage etc.

This is only an example, but you could by the cheapest aerial you can find and clamp it to the pushpit. This will also be a spare antenna should you lose the masthead or God forbid.......

Just a thought

 

[sailorman]

the quick , cheap, NO ALARM method
DONT FIT D.S.C. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Oldhand]

No DSC means you should carry an EPIRB doesn't it? Or is your sinking going to be so slow that you can pass all your information verbally if someone just happens to be still keeping a watch on channel 16? No DSC is not a sensible answer IMHO.

 

[LadyInBed]

Given the choice, I would much prefer to have an EPIRB than a DSC radio.

 

[Robin]

There are aerial splitters available and they are listed by West Marine USA, made by Sheakespeare and Model number in West catalogue is 159389, price $74.99. This model automatically senses when the radio transmits and switches to it. Otherwise you could fit a pushpit aerial as a backup/emergency aerial and use that for receive, I'm thinking of a similar arrangement as we already have a spare VHF aerial mounted up on our stern gantry and wired through ready for use.

Apparently also if you don't ever enter your MMSI number the DSC features will not work, so no screaming alarms but no pushbutton Mayday feature either, your radio works just the same as it ever did but without the DSC features. If you bought a new one but didn't want the compulsory DSC they must come with (or be capable of being upgraded to) this might be the easier solution - I wish I had known that before I programmed the MMSI into mine!

As for DSC being essential, I don't think it is at all. UK CG stations are still listening in CH16 as ever and probably will for several more years yet despite what they and others might say will happen. Just think how many handheld sets are out there used by small boats that have no power for fixed sets, 99.9% of handhelds don't have DSC facilities.

 

[Birdseye]

DSC alarms irritate the hell out of me too, but the clamour for a set with an alarm that can be muted / turned off is essentially selfish. It means you want others to hear your cry for help but dont want to hear theirs. And of course the alarm was made unadjustable simply to prevent deck watches on the big ships it is aimed at from turning it off.

Maybe the answer is for rather more restraint by the MCA who seem to be the source of aloarms anyway

 

[Guest]

According to Navman at 2005 LBS, it is illegal to disable the alarm; you cannot do this on the 7100/7200 sets.

Solution, relocate set into cockpit so that alarm can be attended to readily

 

[sailorman]

[ QUOTE ]
No DSC means you should carry an EPIRB doesn't it? Or is your sinking going to be so slow that you can pass all your information verbally if someone just happens to be still keeping a watch on channel 16? No DSC is not a sensible answer IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

call me "old-fasioned" but i dont go sailing, expecting others to rescue me .
my cruising area Den-Helder > Cherbourg ( limited by time ), does`nt req D.S.C either, all Big Ships still use Ch 16 if u/ they need to talk.
we didnt even have V.H.F. untill some 20 yrs ago,or a Nav system, just paper charts , pencils, log + sounder still done cross channel though.
i have also NEVER HAD A "RADIO CHECK" radio always seems work though
( strange that ), never tell C.G. when i depart either.

 

[Ohdrat]

A simple solution would be to have a bog standard waterproof handheld vhf for listening to Ch16 etc and upgrade to DSC as and when your fixed set goes west.. That's my basic plan... It's useful to have a handheld with its own antenna anyway.

 

[AlexL]

[ QUOTE ]
but the clamour for a set with an alarm that can be muted / turned off is essentially selfish. It means you want others to hear your cry for help but dont want to hear theirs

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think thats what everyone is saying. I'm all for DSC alarms for maydays, but DSC alarms for Dutch coastal forecasts and some French To**er guarding the Tricoler to transmit his postion for the 38th time that hour, should be able to be turned off and ignored. DSC alarms by their nature have GPS positions attached. Its not rocket science to stick a bit of software in to ignore all non Distress alarms outside a particular radius. IMHO this is another typical whitehall 'safety' initiative (read Tax collection justified by safety - just watch the licence fee rise now DSC is here) response which will actually end up reducing safety as people cruise around with the radios completely off. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
DSC alarms irritate the hell out of me too, but the clamour for a set with an alarm that can be muted / turned off is essentially selfish. It means you want others to hear your cry for help but dont want to hear theirs. And of course the alarm was made unadjustable simply to prevent deck watches on the big ships it is aimed at from turning it off.

[/ QUOTE ]

So 90% of users are being selfish by not immediately replacing their existing non-DSC sets with a new DSC model?
I don't want to turn the alarm OFF but I would like to be trusted to set the alarm VOLUME to a level that is acceptable to suit the circumstance, that implies a variable volume, more volume in a gale, less at night in a flat calm and so on. Without that ability my only option is to turn the thing off totally, 100% counterproductive!

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe the answer is for rather more restraint by the MCA who seem to be the source of aloarms anyway

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it depends where you are based/cruise because our biggest offender is in France, Joburg Traffic Control on cherbourg peninsular, 65mls away, their signal on CH70 has a range of more than 80mls sometimes! The local CGs do use them but are seemingly rather more responsible about the frequency.

And please understand we are NOT talking about DSC Alarms that are ABOUT CRIES FOR HELP, these are NOT Mayday/Pan Pan call they are information calls mostly about vessels transitting the Casquets TSS or Central Channel. I have yet to hear a DSC alarm for an actual Mayday (I have heard many by voice on CH16) but DSC alerts for repeated information messages is way OTT IMO.

 

[JonBrooks]

Waters and Stanton (www.wsplc.com) do a very nice antenna switch.
This allows you to have one antenna and two sets.
You can tx/rx on one or the other with no fear of damage to the spare set.

If memory serves they are about £20.

UK based company!

Regards

 

[Becky]

There has been a lot of very useful discussion, but nobody has sung the virtues of having a DSC VHF radio. I suppose that my take on the subject has been very much influenced by threads last summer complaining of the DSC alarms continually going off, when there was no possible way that you could influence the outcome of the problem. Yet you still have to acknowledge/cancel the alarm. My fear is not that we will be calling for help; much more that we will be in a position to render some form of assistance, be it only a Mayday relay. Without the DSC facility we will be powerless. So to an extent my original inquiry was somewhat tongue in cheek. Faced with removing a perfectly good VHF radio (with its concequent hole in our furniture) to be replaced with a new set with DSC ( needless to say of different size), I suggested to HWMBO that maybe we should keep both radios because so many people had described irritating alarms continually going off unnecessarily, such that they turned off their radios.
Interestingly, no-one suggested that having two radios was unnecessary./forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I would be happy to fit the new DSC set and monitor Ch 70 as we are supposed to do, because we will be able to control the set from the helm anyway. And we will find something to fill the hole in our instrument panel neatly, I am sure. Thank you all anyway.

 

[Sailfree]

Like many others I just cancel the alarm and listen on Ch16 with interest. However a number of times I have not heard anything further on Ch 16. Firstly what do others do but more importantly what should we do? I think if I asked Solent coatguard each time whether they received an alarm I would be calling them more times that the annoying "radio check please".

 

[Robin]

The reason you sometimes hear the alert but get no voice transmission when you acknowledge it is quite simply that you are out of range and this is one of the really annoying faults with the system. The alert tone is triggered by the sender transmitting digital data (i believe) on Ch70, this channel is kept clear of all other transmissions unlike normal channels where there is traffic somewhere almost continually even if you cannot hear it because you are out of range. The alert on Ch70 is often therefore received at extreme ranges, way above the range you can receive voice transmissions on other channels, including Ch16. Hence in our local area case, transmission of the alert tones are received from Joburg Traffic as far away as the Solent (South UK) and even the Morbihan (West France/Biscay) yet as you say often no other transmission is received but your set will have been switched to the station the alert sender chooses (Ch80 for Joburg). This hi-acking of your set is outside of your control so if you were listening to a weather transmission on Ch67 say, that is tough luck because you have now missed it in order to listen to......silence, because you are out of range! Now is that good design or what?

 

[Sailfree]

Therefore if in desparation I send someone below to press the red button for 5 seconds while everyone is trying to save the boat no one hearing an alarm will do anything and hopefully the coastguard will repond presumably asking us to make contact on Ch16. Now I am sure there is progress there somewhere. Presumably its an international problem that will take years before anything changes.

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
Therefore if in desparation I send someone below to press the red button for 5 seconds while everyone is trying to save the boat no one hearing an alarm will do anything and hopefully the coastguard will repond presumably asking us to make contact on Ch16

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand your point? Anyone who has a DSC set (and one which is still switched on) will hear it and on pressing the button to acknowledge/stop the alarm their set will be switched to the relevant channel, in this case Ch16. They will also see your current position from your transmission which will enable them to see if they are close enough to be of help. In the meantime you would expect a swift response by voice on Ch16 from any CG station within range from which decisions will be taken, if you are off the air then they will start their rescue procedures anyway (I believe) at the same time trying to obtain confirmation of your situation either from you or other nearby sources that might have information.

Anyone without DSC will NOT hear your 'red button' alarm, only any voice replies in response to it. Since 90% of the leisure fraternity don't yet have DSC yet that could easily mean the boat just a mile away hasn't heard your alarm directly. A lot of small boats/day boats and the like may not have fixed VHF sets only handhelds and 99% of handhelds on the market and 100% of existing ones do not have DSC, so they didn't hear your DSC alarm either, only anything subsequently transmitted by voice, either by you or to you. To my mind that says if in trouble and you have DSC then press the red tit, wait a short time then transmit your voice Mayday just as you would have done for years and years. Either way you need to be monitoring the set for replies.

But to repeat what I have said many times on this subject, that of the hundreds of alarms that I have heard in the last 18 months ALL been set off just to preceed information transmissions, NONE WERE MAYDAYS. I did hear Maydays and Pan Pan calls but these were always the plain voice ones of old, not preceeded by a DSC alarm. I especially fail to understand why the French Traffic Control Centres such as Ouessant and Joburg need to do this all the time, because they have the MMSI number of ALL ships in their area either from the ship's AIS transmitter or from earlier radar contact and subsequent voice interrogation. So they can easily send out their repeated information broadcasts directly to the ships via the ship's MMSI and DSC calling, no need to set off an alarm on every set for 80 mile radius at all! They are using pile drivers to crack hazel nuts here, I have no idea how many sets are within that 80 mile radius all getting the full blast of the alarm but it has to be thousands, unnecessary noise pollution in the extreme!

[ QUOTE ]
Presumably its an international problem that will take years before anything changes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say you were correct, especially as so many (and even on the forums) seem to think it is not really a problem and those of us raising it are making a fuss about nothing.

Robin