Wiring horrors

[TonyBuckley]

Well... finally got around to fitting my new switch panel, or more interestingly removing my old one and holding my breath at what I would find.

The boat has some VERY interesting wiring throughout so it was with some trepidation that I unscrewed the old panel. The pics show what I found.

I think the history is that when new, the panel was just a set of switches with no visible fuses. The fuses sat behind the panel as shown in the photo. Some have been wrapped in tin foil or wired across <shudder>.

Later, an owner added a standard panel but did not do a lot about the fuses behind.

I have now replaced the existing panel and added a new panel that has inbuilt circuit breakers.

So... my plan is to fit some high rated fuses and assume the switch panel circuit breakers would do the business before they would blow.

Bit more complicated than that as a couple do not go to the panel, so I assume these are for engine panel etc and I need to keep these as they are.

Would that be the right thing to do? It effectively means I will have two fuses in line for each circuit, but the hard to access one should not blow and the worst that would happen is that a circuit would trip.

 

[DownWest]

I just had a look at a boat with old engine wiring. No relation to the diags. In your place, if I couldn't figure out the system, I would redo it to a decent standard. Then, if you have a prob. you can easily trace it.

 

[TonyBuckley]

I just had a look at a boat with old engine wiring. No relation to the diags. In your place, if I couldn't figure out the system, I would redo it to a decent standard. Then, if you have a prob. you can easily trace it.

To be honest, it was not as bad as I was expecting except for a few loose live wires (yes really) that I have cut back and insulated. Nice metal cage, good numbering of the circuits, just seeing fuses in there threw me back a little.

But every trip to the boat brings a new challenge - today was seeing the clipper duet (depth/log) display is shagged with the LCDs blowing - my fault I think for leaving the cover off in very hot sunshine. So where do I source a new display from <sigh>?

 

[savageseadog]

I would really advise not having duplicated fuses and breakers save for a situation where you are feeding multiple instruments from one breaker. I would suggest having a breaker panel for lights and other 5A plus loads and possibly a smaller switched fuse panel preferably with LEDS to feed the various bits of low power electronics and get rid of that awful fuse panel.

 

[Birdseye]

Would that be the right thing to do? It effectively means I will have two fuses in line for each circuit, but the hard to access one should not blow and the worst that would happen is that a circuit would trip.

Right thing? Unnecessary I would have thought. And given that fuses require breaks in the wires and contacts etc, they potentially could add problems rather than avoid risks. Obviously you could go on adding fuses ad nauseam just in case the others didnt work, but how far do you carry this?

I once repaired a boat where the engine had come off its mounts and the sump had cut into the main positive cable causing a major short and a nasty fire including burning through the tops of the batteries where the cables had laid across them. The only saving grace was that the rotary switch still worked so the skipper was able to cut off the short. Anyway, my ideal would now be circuit breakers for individual circuits plus a high amperage fuse in the main line from the batteries.

 

[David2452]

This is the kind of thing I see on a daily basis and yours is far from the worst example I have seen, in fact it is probably toward the best (or rather least worst) if you think of your cabling as a tree then the smaller the branches the smaller the circuit breakers so all a circuit breaker needs to do is protect the circuit downstream of it (the circuit not just the conductor or wire as some call it) so you may have lots of circuit breakers, some of which are very low value to protect electronic equipment and located in line very close to the load, do not be afraid to use a circuit breaker if you think it is justified, better too many than to few provided they are documented.

 

[elton]

The number of posts we see on here from people admitting zero or "limited" knowledge of basic electrical wiring, and asking for advice, explains why there are so many second hand boats with atrocious and often non-functional wiring.

 

[sailorman]

Well... finally got around to fitting my new switch panel, or more interestingly removing my old one and holding my breath at what I would find.

The boat has some VERY interesting wiring throughout so it was with some trepidation that I unscrewed the old panel. The pics show what I found.

I think the history is that when new, the panel was just a set of switches with no visible fuses. The fuses sat behind the panel as shown in the photo. Some have been wrapped in tin foil or wired across <shudder>.

Later, an owner added a standard panel but did not do a lot about the fuses behind.

I have now replaced the existing panel and added a new panel that has inbuilt circuit breakers.

So... my plan is to fit some high rated fuses and assume the switch panel circuit breakers would do the business before they would blow.

Bit more complicated than that as a couple do not go to the panel, so I assume these are for engine panel etc and I need to keep these as they are.

Would that be the right thing to do? It effectively means I will have two fuses in line for each circuit, but the hard to access one should not blow and the worst that would happen is that a circuit would trip.

What rating is the ali foil

 

[gregcope]

What rating is the ali foil

And the wire across?

 

[ffiill]

Add wiring for three cabins 12v lights and plugs,pressurised water,bilge pumps,electronics,autopilot,nav lights,two voltmeters,one hour meter
Plus an instrument panel with ammeter,engine oil pressure,hydraulic oil pressure,water temp and ignition switch then your wiring with later ad ons becomes complicated!

 

[simonfraser]

If you know what all he wires do you are 90% home.

Sort the fuses / breakers and move on.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The number of posts we see on here from people admitting zero or "limited" knowledge of basic electrical wiring, and asking for advice, explains why there are so many second hand boats with atrocious and often non-functional wiring.

Nah - it's the number of posts we don't see, from people who don't realise that they need advice, which explains the dodgy wiring.

 

[TonyBuckley]

Thanks for all the comments.

I think I have decided to do away with all the internal fuses (accept one) and stick with the breakers. There is more than enough capacity to do that. I rewired my last boat but that was simpler than this one due to the heath robinson approach over many years.

And I can find my way through wiring even if the 'A' level electronics was a couple of years back.

I think most dodgy wiring is simply cos owners take the path of least resistance and assume their memory will hold with what they have done. Doesn't help a new owner however.

 

[prv]

Doesn't help a new owner however.

I gave Kindred Spirit's new owner a 30-page boat manual that included a wiring diagram. I accept that I am probably unusual

Pete

 

[pagoda]

I gave Kindred Spirit's new owner a 30-page boat manual that included a wiring diagram. I accept that I am probably unusual

Pete

That was very decent of you

My boat came with a vast collection of manuals/ installation literature. But no record whatsoever of how things were wired into the switchpanel.
Ergo, nightmare sorting it out. Some things fine, others dreadful. Some things back to front(power from engine battery fed to other circuits!)
I have a plan to rebuild the back of the switch panel, not this season, but in a year or so. It's not a trivial job (though not technically difficult), so I have postponed it a couple of times.
The mains input to the boat was through an ELCB, which was good, but there were things taken off the 240V BEFORE the main internal switch downstream of the ELCB. SO some sockets were still live with the main switch off :disgust:
(that has been sorted out!)
I reckon most 2nd hand boats have similar problems, though lots of people go through life without investigating themselves, after a purchase. Look at cars for example??

Graeme

 

[TonyBuckley]

I gave Kindred Spirit's new owner a 30-page boat manual that included a wiring diagram. I accept that I am probably unusual

Pete

I did the same with my old boat, though must admit it did not amount to 30 pages!

Certainly had a wiring diagram though.

 

[prv]

I did the same with my old boat, though must admit it did not amount to 30 pages!

I actually started it long before we decided to sell the boat, and not for that purpose. But when we did put her up for sale I finally got round to finishing it off, and I think it was one of the factors that led the buyer choose our boat out of the several examples available.

Pete