Winter: time for a drysuit, or a drier boat?

[Greenheart]

I've had a good season in the Osprey with a happy mix of thrills & spills avoided, distance covered at good pace and several modest day-cruising plans achieved.

The fact that I haven't yet spent a night aboard, nor pulled her up to rest overnight on an unfamiliar beach, doesn't detract from the satisfaction of having taken this big dinghy to sea alone for extended day-sails in brisk weather without shipping more brine than rain-water, and without scaring myself or suffering a knock-down...

...which I explain by having engaged seamanlike restraint when deciding how much sail to set, rather than the average racer's instinct which says 'risk is fun'.

I bought the Osp because she's as BIG as some mini-cruisers, but only cost bicycle-money. I've no wish to sell her (I doubt I'd find a buyer anyway) so my question is, should I spend as much money as she cost, on a drysuit so I can persevere with day-sailing her through the winter, or should I put the cash towards a ballasted, lidded cruiser, and spend the winter searching for, hopefully buying, prepping and launching a more effective answer to my cruising-dreams, ready for next spring?

Or is a dinghy-drysuit likely to be sufficiently useful aboard a very small yacht, to be worth having long-term, anyway?

I'll be especially grateful if contributors would reply without asking questions of their own...which has been known.

 

[steve yates]

How much is the dry suit?

Sorry, couldn't resist dan.

I don't have any experience to speak off, but I read your threads with interest on finding a cruising dinghy.

I originally bought a little graduate, to learn to sail in, but it was cruising I wanted to do.

When I realised how wet you get in those little boats, plus I'd struggle to sleep on the grad, I immediately started looking for one with a lid, which led me to my gradwell 18.
I just know I'll get out far more often on this than I would with a dinghy. More to the point, I will overnight a lot more, as it's easier and simpler. I have been setting up the cabin with stuff so I don't even need to pack, even put a separate wash bag in it with toothpaste etc. and a case of Guinness all I should,need to do if I decide to go is get dressed, buy a fresh carton of milk , untie her and head off.
That's just not feasible with a dinghy.

For me, that's what it's about.

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks Steve, that's very simple and impossible to argue with.

Many gents on this forum said I should have bought a mini-cruiser to start with...and in essence I agreed, but cost-wise, I would have had to wait a long year or three to get started...

...and I would have missed the real excitement (plus the grand ego-boost) of regularly launching and sailing a really big dinghy, singlehanded. Whichever small yacht I find, it's unlikely to rival that element of performance. In truth, that's probably part of the question...because the Osprey is a delight to sail, whereas a mini-cruiser is likely to disappoint.

Tricky...I want the relative weatherproofing and prolonged time aboard which a cabin will allow...but I think I'd be frustrated by many small yachts' sailing characteristics...

...then again, perhaps the answer is clear: I simply need both boats...one for relaxed extended cruising, the other for an occasional blast of precision and pace.

And as I said, very likely I'd never be able to find a buyer for the Osprey anyway.

 

[KAL]

I don't think you'd regret having a drysuit Dan. Just make sure you get one with full feet, not ankle cuffs, and wear either wetsuit boots or Sharkx type shoes to protect them. Honestly, you'll be dry, warm (if you wear fleece underneath - you can get a fleece onesie...) and comfortable. There'll be some condensation if you work hard, but I've never found it a problem.

My drysuit was second-hand (ex RNLI) and cost approx £80. Your Osprey was surely more than that!!

 

[Seajet]

Dan,

despite having a boat with a lid, a drysuit would be jolly handy - partly for the odd sail when I know it will be nasty but still feel like going - repositioning the boat at ends of season when normal moorings aren't available for instance.

However a drysuit would really come into its own when working on my mooring in winter, others too as it's a volunteer members only club, I suspect the sort of club you' prefer.

I just resent paying a min £250 on a drysuit again, after tearing my Typhoon job.

I think swapping boats would cost FAR more than that though, and if you did that now without really trying your dreams of overnighting the Osprey you'd be left forever wondering, so I say get drysuit, keep Osprey for at least another season.

And take lots of photo's to look back on when you eventually succumb to something with a lid.

Andy

 

[GrahamD]

If you go down the dry suit route, do get one where the zip allows you to have a pee easily, without taking it off the shoulders. Whilst it is not unknown for dinghy sailors in wetsuits to hang over the side relieving themselves between races, if you do this in a dry suit you just get smelly wet feet. On my last suit the zip ran from the left abdomen to the right shoulder and this enabled easy access when it mattered most!

I think it is probably better to buy a suit with neoprene cuffs and neck as these last longer than latex seals, although if you have sealed socks these will have to be latex.

I dont know whether their designs fits my access criteria, but I have been really impressed with stuff I have had from Lomo, and I note they do dry suits.

Finally have to be careful about where you store wetsuits with latex seals. We had a problem with the these "rotting out" after a season or two, and I could not understand why, until someone told me to make sure that they are stored away from any electric motors. Apparently electric motors produce ozone when in use and this reacts with the latex. We have been hanging up the dry suits next to the washing machine and tumble dryer in the garage, and when we moved them away and stored them elsewhere in the house the seals did seem to last longer. I don't know whether there is any truth in this. Perhaps a forum member can say whether this is true or an old sailor's tale.

 

[bbg]

If you are going down the drysuit route, I strongly, highly recommend an Ursuit.

http://www.ursuk.fi/en/sailing/dry-suits

I have a Gemino Operative in 4 Tex, which is their own breathable fabric. Available also in Gore Tex. It comes in two pieces - trousers and pullover top - which zip together around the waist. So it is possible to have a pee without taking everything off - you just have to unzip a bit.

They are expensive and there is no doubt about that, but everyone I know who has tried one will not wear anything else. French SNCM (equivalent of RNLI) use a customised version of the Gore Tex one.

As far as I am concerned, best drysuit on the market, bar none. You will not regret getting one.

Edit - just a bit more info. Once you are wearing it, it feels like normal wet weather gear. You just have the cuffs around neck and wrists. Because of the design of the socks, you can wear it with boots or shoes.

As a personal choice, whenever I wear a drysuit, I also wear a lifejacket. If you go in the water inverted, you may find yourself floating feet up.

 

[prv]

My drysuit was second-hand (ex RNLI) and cost approx £80. Your Osprey was surely more than that!!

This is my thought too - you can get a good drysuit for remarkably little if you're canny on eBay. Mine is ex-Navy but unused, obviously been hung in a store for a few years and then disposed of without ever being issued. £85. I guess I was lucky to find an unused one, but there's a constant stream of used but usable ex-Forces suits at around that price or sometimes much less. Often they need the rubber socks replacing, but that's a routine job; socks and seals are semi-consumable items anyway.

Pete

 

[dunedin]

Have a look at the Trident UK - they make very practical and economical dry suits (different price league from Ursuit above) and are very keen dinghy sailors who use and develop their own gear. They would also be very happy to advise
No connection other than having bought a number of their suits for junior sailors

This may make the "doing another season" potion more economically viable

PS. If buying second hand make sure suitable for dinghy sailing - ie good flexibility, wear patches in correct places etc. Lots of heavy duty (eg ex industry) suits not designed for sailing.

 

[FairweatherDave]

I think it is a no brainer. Winter sailing a capsizable boat for any length of time means a dry suit. And that is no bad investment since if you capsized in April or May the sea will still be dangerously cold. And there are so many winter days when a nice little sail is easy to do in a Dinghy. Your hypothetical bigger cruising boat is likely to be harder work to be in a state of readiness to get on the water at short notice. Given the path you have gone down a dry suit extends your sailing time massively making it a sound investment.

 

[mm42]

A good drysuit is a joy to use, you can't underestimate how much better you'll feel for being warm and dry.

I've two, for different jobs. For going out on RIBs I use a Musto HPX suit. These are nearly a grand new but appear on ebay cheap from time to time, mine had barely been worn and I gave £150 for it. It is superb, like wearing a set of oilies but without any water coming in through the neck, sleeves etc, no matter what the weather.

For heavy duty jobs, commercial safety boat work etc I've a Hammond Nets surface drysuit, they make them for Fire and Rescue amongst others, it's a much heavier duty suit with flooding knees (they fill with water to act as kneepads when kneeling before draining when you stand up). It has had some real hammer from me but looks like new. I'm doing a Swiftwater Rescue Technician course in it in November and have no doubt it will keep me warm no matter what (we'll be going down weirs and whitewater). Keep another eye on ebay as Hammond Nets sometimes sell off their sizing samples, never worn in the water, for a fraction of their usual cost.

For the cost it's definitely worth trying.

 

[prv]

I think it is a no brainer. Winter sailing a capsizable boat for any length of time means a dry suit. And that is no bad investment since if you capsized in April or May the sea will still be dangerously cold.

+1

We bought the Contraption in early March, and obviously had to have at least one go in it. Launching involves a fair bit of wading - and actually on this occasion I went for a full-on swim to test the suit - followed by sitting in 25-knot winds and massive amounts of spray. After a couple of hours I was merely slightly chilly, but my mate who was wearing only fleeces and waterproofs was actually well on the way to hypothermia, to the point that we landed immediately to get him into a warm van and drive him to a hot shower and were kicking ourselves for not noticing sooner.

He got on eBay and bought himself another ex-Navy drysuit (well used this time, for about £50 I think) before we took the Contraption out again.

Pete

 

[lw395]

If you go down the dry suit route, do get one where the zip allows you to have a pee easily, without taking it off the shoulders. Whilst it is not unknown for dinghy sailors in wetsuits to hang over the side relieving themselves between races, if you do this in a dry suit you just get smelly wet feet. On my last suit the zip ran from the left abdomen to the right shoulder and this enabled easy access when it mattered most!

I think it is probably better to buy a suit with neoprene cuffs and neck as these last longer than latex seals, although if you have sealed socks these will have to be latex.

I dont know whether their designs fits my access criteria, but I have been really impressed with stuff I have had from Lomo, and I note they do dry suits.

Finally have to be careful about where you store wetsuits with latex seals. We had a problem with the these "rotting out" after a season or two, and I could not understand why, until someone told me to make sure that they are stored away from any electric motors. Apparently electric motors produce ozone when in use and this reacts with the latex. We have been hanging up the dry suits next to the washing machine and tumble dryer in the garage, and when we moved them away and stored them elsewhere in the house the seals did seem to last longer. I don't know whether there is any truth in this. Perhaps a forum member can say whether this is true or an old sailor's tale.

My current drysuit is a Typhoon with fabric feet.
I think I've had it over 5 years now, sailing most weekends October to Dec and Mar+ April, plus colder 'summer days' of longer races, and use in the RIBs.
So it has earned its keep.
It seems to have lasted Ok, although I'm pretty careful.
I do need a size up on boots compared to those I wear in Summer with a wetsuit, so budget another £30 or so.

It also has neo neck and wrists, so no latex to rot.

My old one has been in a cupboard for five years or so, the seals are completely trashed now, as well as needing the small tear fixed that caused me to replace it.
Only worth fixing as a DIY job I suspect.

 

[Daydream believer]

Dan
you can buy a nice little 19ft cruiser with trailer ( I know of one) for £ 300-00
So then you would not need the drysuit as you could go below & make a cup of tea to warm you up

 

[Greenheart]

Dan...you can buy a nice little 19ft cruiser with trailer...for £ 300-00...you would not need the drysuit as you could go below & make a cup of tea to warm you up.

Ha ha ha! Thank you for restoring a bit of balance, Daydream. :biggrin-new:

In truth, I am now well persuaded that for every reason, a drysuit will be enduringly beneficial, and I believe it's true that even a high-quality suit would cost significantly less than any small yacht that would seriously attract me away from the Osprey...

...and most significantly by far, a drysuit will mean I can just keep enjoying real, regular sailing, as I have in recent months, while I plan my yachting future...which must be better than retreating to the sofa and the keyboard for six dreamy months of coffee and theorising about possible purchases, here on the forum...not that I can promise to stay away!

I still very much want what Steve Yates described - a boat which stays afloat, permanently equipped with dry, vital essentials, enabling spontaneous, effortless sailing away to creeks and sheltered beaches, anchoring or drying out in any weather without having to regret an imminent spray-soaked night under a flapping boom-tent, or a midnight-dunking, or hurrying to reach the club slipway before the end of the ebb, and sweating to haul her out...I'm still firmly a budding-cruiser, but I'll keep dinghy-sailing while I save for the cabin.

Thanks to you all for your excellent advice. :encouragement:

 

[steve yates]

There's your answer then dry suit now, cheap cabin cruiser later, and run both boats. I've kept my dinghy on derwentwater, and this thread has been great I'm now going to haunt eBay for a dry suit, particularly as I have a sea kayak, means those winter high pressure days I can get that out and not get hypothermia as I go in.

 

[Greenheart]

We bought the Contraption in early March, and obviously had to have at least one go in it.

By the way Pete, what is the Contraption?

 

[alant]

I've had a good season in the Osprey with a happy mix of thrills & spills avoided, distance covered at good pace and several modest day-cruising plans achieved.

The fact that I haven't yet spent a night aboard, nor pulled her up to rest overnight on an unfamiliar beach, doesn't detract from the satisfaction of having taken this big dinghy to sea alone for extended day-sails in brisk weather without shipping more brine than rain-water, and without scaring myself or suffering a knock-down...

...which I explain by having engaged seamanlike restraint when deciding how much sail to set, rather than the average racer's instinct which says 'risk is fun'.

I bought the Osp because she's as BIG as some mini-cruisers, but only cost bicycle-money. I've no wish to sell her (I doubt I'd find a buyer anyway) so my question is, should I spend as much money as she cost, on a drysuit so I can persevere with day-sailing her through the winter, or should I put the cash towards a ballasted, lidded cruiser, and spend the winter searching for, hopefully buying, prepping and launching a more effective answer to my cruising-dreams, ready for next spring?

Or is a dinghy-drysuit likely to be sufficiently useful aboard a very small yacht, to be worth having long-term, anyway?

I'll be especially grateful if contributors would reply without asking questions of their own...which has been known.

I've got an ex RN drysuit for sale, if interested.

 

[prv]

By the way Pete, what is the Contraption?

Have you come across Zapcats?

The Contraption is a sort of unbranded knockoff version which my friend Chris bought off eBay, roping me in as a somewhat reluctant co-owner (plus a third partner as well) as the auction price climbed:

(The name comes from a throwaway comment by dom here; I was fed up of referring to it as the "small fast catamaran RIB" or "the knockoff Zapcat".)

The boat itself is pretty good, but the motor is a year older than me and on its last legs. The cowling fills up with water from an unidentified source - I've made repeated attempts to seal it against spray and am starting to wonder if the cooling system has a leak under load. I've fitted what amount to self-bailers on the bottom to try to keep the water level down, so it manages ok in a straight line, but vigorous manoeuvres (which is what this boat is about) throw the water over the HT leads and knock it down to a rough idle or even a complete stop. The gearbox is under suspicion as well.

Still, when it's working it's quite fun to drive:

Note the ex-Navy eBay drysuit . Also I've since repaired the motor cowling latch so that it no longer needs a ratchet-strap to hold the lid on!

Pete

 

[mm42]

That looks bloody good fun.