Winter lay-up ashore

[CharlesSwallow]

Is it REALLY sensible to abandon perfectly evenly distributed stress over the whole surface of the hull for allowing every gust of wind, major or minor-to-insignificant between now and April to be concentrated on, at best, eight localised spots thereon?

Chas

 

[ccscott49]

Is it REALLY sensible to abandon perfectly evenly distributed stress over the whole surface of the hull for allowing every gust of wind, major or minor-to-insignificant between now and April to be concentrated on, at best, eight localised spots thereon?

Chas

No, not sensible atall, especially for a wooden boat, which is one of the reasons I dont do it. Fibreglass is just as bad, for stress.
But saying that some glass boats need a period out of the water to dry out any water in the laminates. Drying out a wooden boat is not to be done!

 

[duncan99210]

Always been a bit puzzled by the rush to lift boats out of the water for the winter. Usually easier and cheaper to leave them in the water, better for them and only lift them out when the bottom needs a new antifoul.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Always been a bit puzzled by the rush to lift boats out of the water for the winter. Usually easier and cheaper to leave them in the water, better for them and only lift them out when the bottom needs a new antifoul.

On the water you depend on having a reliable local person to check the bilge still pumps, the cockpit drains don't clog, the batteries stay charged, the warps don't chafe . . . the list is shorter when you're ashore, and the penalty of poor care not so drastic!

Also, ashore, the main weight is (should be!) taken by the keel, which distributes stress evenly. The lateral supports only resist wind forces and earthquakes; which are either trivial, or very rare and short duration!

 

[Appleyard]

Also ashore,you don't get idiots bumping into your boat,dragging their anchor over your's,wandering aboard and nicking things and even shifting your boat to make room for themselves.

Ashore you can more easily fit a secure winter cover over the boat,and as has been said,let the GRP dry out and as Jim says,the weight is taken by the keel so the pads are only there to keep it upright. If your yard knows its stuff,the guys will tap the hull to find the bulkheads are so that they can position the supports properly.

For the small extra cost,I think it is worth it,my boat is always lifted out when not in use (summer and winter),and is always bone dry when we return in the spring...Matches left on board will strike easily.

 

[shaxi]

For the small extra cost,I think it is worth it,my boat is always lifted out when not in use (summer and winter),and is always bone dry when we return in the spring...Matches left on board will strike easily.

agree !consider carefully before a sailing plan is important !

 

[CharlesSwallow]

On the water you depend on having a reliable local person to check the bilge still pumps, the cockpit drains don't clog, the batteries stay charged, the warps don't chafe . . . the list is shorter when you're ashore, and the penalty of poor care not so drastic!

Also, ashore, the main weight is (should be!) taken by the keel, which distributes stress evenly. The lateral supports only resist wind forces and earthquakes; which are either trivial, or very rare and short duration!

I don't think ANY boat was actually designed with standing on it's keel being the primary means of support. I watched an old Moody being lowered onto blocks last year and I could see the keel visibly push up and distort the hull. Consider the huge moment created by the severe wind gusts onto the rigging, we get here in Corfu, transmitted to the lee-side pads even if (which I always insist upon) they are placed against bulkheads. It is also a fact that many modern boats don't have "structural" bulkheads anymore. As to your battery health point, remember that many yards and marinas don't allow prolonged connection to the electricity supply.

Chas

 

[Poignard]

I don't think ANY boat was actually designed with standing on it's keel being the primary means of support.

If you dry out alongside a wall there is no other means of support except the keel.

It doesn't seem to do my 44-year old boat any harm. When she dries out there is no sign of any stress in the hull (although there may well be in her skipper!)

 

[jimbaerselman]

I don't think ANY boat was actually designed with standing on it's keel being the primary means of support. I watched an old Moody being lowered onto blocks last year and I could see the keel visibly push up and distort the hull.

I think the design case for keel attachment in GRP is to keep keel bending movement to an absolute minimum so the GRP does not delaminate. That implies a great deal more stiffness than required to take the weight of the boat. A boat which bends the way you describe is ready for the scrap heap.

 

[ccscott49]

Also ashore,you don't get idiots bumping into your boat,dragging their anchor over your's,wandering aboard and nicking things and even shifting your boat to make room for themselves.

Ashore you can more easily fit a secure winter cover over the boat,and as has been said,let the GRP dry out and as Jim says,the weight is taken by the keel so the pads are only there to keep it upright. If your yard knows its stuff,the guys will tap the hull to find the bulkheads are so that they can position the supports properly.

For the small extra cost,I think it is worth it,my boat is always lifted out when not in use (summer and winter),and is always bone dry when we return in the spring...Matches left on board will strike easily.

The difference between us and you James, is our boat is always in commision and we are there at least 98% of the time, so can watch out for chafe/thieves/folks moving us etc, which is another reason for the chains around the bollards and roller fairleads.
I see a lot of boats laid up afloat with excellent covers also.
Personally I dont like my boat out of the water, but agree with you and Jim about the stresses, after all, all slipway launched lifeboats, spend a long time on their keels, even the old wooden watsons and they came to no harm. Mind you they sit on a groove, with weight spread all along the groove.
My boat unfortunately has been harmed by being out of the water, with the blocks that support the keel, localised crushing the keel, I always ask them to put more blocks under her, but the damge has been done now, 48 tons on six or seven, foot wide blocks is not good for her.
Even worse on a marine railway, which may have only four keel supports!

 

[maby]

The primary problem is insurance - most policies will not cover you for the winter months tied up on a trot buoy. We're in a marina and will leave the boat in the water all the year round. We'll be spending a lot of time on it and it will be sailed at least once a week, weather permitting. A lot of the best sailing weather is between October and March - last Saturday was fantastic!

 

[Appleyard]

The difference between us and you James, is our boat is always in commision and we are there at least 98% of the time, so can watch out for chafe/thieves/folks moving us etc, which is another reason for the chains around the bollards and roller fairleads.
I see a lot of boats laid up afloat with excellent covers also.
Personally I dont like my boat out of the water, but agree with you and Jim about the stresses, after all, all slipway launched lifeboats, spend a long time on their keels, even the old wooden watsons and they came to no harm. Mind you they sit on a groove, with weight spread all along the groove.
My boat unfortunately has been harmed by being out of the water, with the blocks that support the keel, localised crushing the keel, I always ask them to put more blocks under her, but the damge has been done now, 48 tons on six or seven, foot wide blocks is not good for her.
Even worse on a marine railway, which may have only four keel supports!

Quite right,everybody's situation is different,we only use the boat 3 months in spring and autumn,and are still working the rest of the year.
Also 48 tons in a fair weight to be sitting ashore for any length of time!!

 

[maby]

Quite right,everybody's situation is different,we only use the boat 3 months in spring and autumn,and are still working the rest of the year.
Also 48 tons in a fair weight to be sitting ashore for any length of time!!

You need to bring the boat closer to home! We work the year round, but we still sail every weekend...

 

[Appleyard]

You need to bring the boat closer to home! We work the year round, but we still sail every weekend...

No way!! Prefer extended cruising in warm places.

 

[maby]

No way!! Prefer extended cruising in warm places.

Each to their own! We just had an enforced two months with no sailing while waiting for the new boat to be delivered and we were getting frantic by the end of it!

 

[BurnitBlue]

I always lift out for the winter. It stops the Osmosis clock and it possibly puts it in rewind. Insurance in Sweden is impossible after October unless lifted out.

The boat I have in Greece is also lifted out. I was reluctant to lift out this winter because I didn't want to be stranded ashore. I reckon that if Greece goes bottoms-up then the banks will be bankrupt and close their doors. if that happened the yard would not have access to funds needed to launch the 700 boats they store on their land.

Reluctant or not I thought the risks were six of one half-a-dozen of the other so I lifted out.

 

[vyv_cox]

I reckon that if Greece goes bottoms-up then the banks will be bankrupt and close their doors. if that happened the yard would not have access to funds needed to launch the 700 boats they store on their land.

I would have thought that in those circumstances any yard will welcome owners who turn up with euro or pound or dollar notes with open arms. Why do you think a yard needs access to banks to launch boats?

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I would have thought that in those circumstances any yard will welcome owners who turn up with euro or pound or dollar notes with open arms. Why do you think a yard needs access to banks to launch boats?

Those were my thought too

 

[Appleyard]

I would agree with this ,but the problem might be that if you had paid up front for your winter storage , the yard had banked all money thus paid,and the banks went tits up,they might not have the wherewithal to continue working.
Unlikely I admit ,as no doubt a large wodge will have been stuffed under the proverbial mattress,but it is still a concern.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I would have thought that in those circumstances any yard will welcome owners who turn up with euro or pound or dollar notes with open arms. Why do you think a yard needs access to banks to launch boats?

During this year I noticed that it took a travel lift, a boat "extraction" tractor(boats too tightly packed to access with the travel lift) 3 workers, and and two drivers. Three office staff and only five boats a day launched. Electricity for the Admin, Diesel for the vehicles, a crane to step the masts on some boats. A mechanic, a welder, and a few other workers doing odd jobs.

Put simply, wages, materials and utilities would need the yards to have access to their funds in the bank. I reckon it would take at least five month to launch all the boats, (at the speed they worked at this year anyway). Not to mention that boats not launched will still pay a day to day storage fee so an incentive not to rush.

If banks closed their doors I reckon that the Preveza yards would last a month before they had to shut down to re-group. As I said, it was a risk but I considered it a small risk, so I lifted out. I still do because I think they will muddle through. This is just an academic discussion.

Either way I will be down there in early March so I will be one of the first to launch.

PS EDIT ... I believe most boat owners paid in advance for the 2011/2012 winter so that money is in their bank.