Winter heating

[poter]

Winter is coming, what is the most economical/best heating system for a 30' Moody?
I will have her in the water over the winter to enjoy the sailing.....but SWIMBO absolutely insists that any sailing in the UK will be in comfort!!!!!

Help please

poter

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[jimi]

I got an Eberspacher fitted last year, and quite simply it transforms early and late season sailing comgfort levels. Go for it!

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[poter]

Yup! I was thinking of that thanks Jimi.
Who did you get yours from? & is it an easy DIY?


I am in Plymouth.

poter.

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[jimi]

Being technically incontinent (I piss around and end up with a load of crap that someone else has to clear up!) I got Kreugers to install it.

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[claudio]

The Toyoset heater, simple, efficient, quiet, cheap, see
http://www.vikingmarine.co.uk/heaters/index.htm
Quote ref CDCA for 10% discount



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[bedouin]

The other option worth considering is a Propex Gas fired heater. This is the same concept as the Eberspacher but powered from your Gas rather than diesel.

It has the advantage that it is cheaper to buy, more reliable and cheaper to maintain and takes less electricity to run.

The downsides are that it costs more to run per hour. Worth considering if you are only thinking of using it occasionally in winter. For frequent use, or use in sub zero temperatures, diesel probably has the advantage.

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[sailorman]

try changing to propane during the winter months, u get your first cupper quicker

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[pvb]

DIY installation...

It's fairly easy to install heating yourself, but you really need to buy or hire a proper hole-cutting saw to cut the bulkheads to take the ducting (trying to do it without the right tool is a nightmare). The Eberspacher people will probably be able to suggest the easiest place to mount the heater in your boat, based on experience.

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[gunnarsilins]

Maybe you...

...should consider a Eberspacher, Webasto or similar water heater, running of diesel from the main tank.

Instead of blowing hot air through big air ducts you fit a couple of radiators in each cabin.
The installation is much easier, drill 30 mm holes for rubber hoses through bulkheads etc. instead of 100 mm for air ducts.

The heater is quieter (no fan blowing air).
Running the hoses under bunks dries and warms them up nicely.
You can hook an heat exchanger to the engine and have heat for free when motoring.
You can hook in an electric heater and use the system on electricity when in a marina
Uses less electrical power.

The drawback is that when arriving to an unheated boat it takes a while before she gets warm and cosy.
Filling the system with water and anti-freeze can be a messy job when trying to get rid of air-locks.

I live in Stockholm with my boat afloat during the winter and have this system onboard.
When the boat is unattended she is heated by electricity, which keeps her dry and the interior stays above zero, even if its -15 outside. When arriving we run the diesel heater and within one hour we have + 20 in the boat.
We have a rather big heater (9kW in a Moody 42) but in England you should cope with a much smaller, less than 2 kW should be more than enough.



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[Talbot]

I fitted an eberspacher last winter saved abt £500 installation cost, but was much slower than if they had done it. my installation was definetely not straightforward and the boat had to be out of the water when the exhaust was fitted due to its position. If the boat is being used through the winter get someone in to do it - kreuger seems to be fine, they were very good at answering lots of inane questions. I am very happy with the system

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[bedouin]

In my case this is purely theoretical.

I've got Camping Gaz and so propane is not an option. Anyway I have yet to be on the boat in conditions where it would matter! At the moment I don't have any heating on the boat, and I am trying to decide between diesel and gas myself.



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[Avocet]

I have the smaller Propex heater unit and I'm very happy with it. Over several years it only failed once and that was as a result of seawater getting into the combustion air inlet hose after a knockdown. The Propex heater unit itself was fine. The disadvantage is that even in the relatively mild British winters it really won't work on Butane as soon as the weather gets near freezing. The Butane just won't vapourise. As I don't use the boat much in deepest winter, I live with it but if I was serious, I'd get a diesel-fired one.

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[Pelican]

Both diesel and gaz can freeze in very low temperatures which is why I have fitted to my 24 footer a Bengco Charcoal heater which burns not only charcoal but driftwood, (plenty on the beaches!) dead sea gulls and a bit o turf!

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[timevans2000]

Dont forget drip feed diesel heaters. I have stripped out 2 gas fired heaters (now for sale) in favour of a Dickinson Newport heater. They use no electricity, make 5 kw of dry heat with a large percentage of the heat as radiation. ie you can sit in front of it and get nice and hot.

In my view air blown heaters are not the right choice for boats. Boats need ventilation. Heating the air up (Eberspacher type)to just throw it away seems daft. With a heater you can sit round you can have all the surfaces in the boat warmed by the heater and a relatively cool air temperature and still feel comfortable. This combats condensation more effectively than air blown heating.

Dont be put off by drip feed heaters. My Dickinson lights very easily, doesnt smell and it has a back boiler for heating hot water. I put a small kettle on top and it boils water for a cup of tea too.



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[TheBoatman]

Couldn't agree more Eberspacher are great, ours is reliable and a great thing for drying out the boat and wet kit after a sail.

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[poter]

Ok I'm convinced where do you get a drip feed diesel heater & how much are we talking about? does it require a flue?

poter

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[timevans2000]

I Fitted mine last winter and can honestly say it the best modification I could possibly have made to my boat.

If you go onto the Dickinson website in Canada, you will see a range of s/s heaters. I bought the newport model. I paid £600 for a complete unit including inport duty, vat, delivery etc. The same model from the uk importes costs £1000 if you buy it from him!

The unit does require a flue. Have a look at the website. I remove the flue terminal and plug the hole with a s/s cap when sailing.

The Newport model gives up to 5 kw of heat. We have managed to get the boat to 30 degrees C when it was freezing outside. This is something we could never achieve with a pair of 2.4kw blown air heaters!
I dont know why cos they have the same theoretical output.

You can buy the heater with a tiny diesel pump that continuesly feeds the heater. I had a 7 litre tank fabricated and fill that tank from the main tank via a large electric facet fuel pump I had in the shed. The small tank then gravity feeds to the heater.



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[jimi]

With the eberspacher you can have it running whilst sailing (a great boon) and in fact I take the view that having blown air helps to dry wet gear etc by warming and maintaining an airflow at the same time.

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[timevans2000]

Does you heater pull fresh air from outside or are you recirculating damp air around the boat? If it is not pullling in fresh air then there is little benefit to drying clothing. In cold weather the moisture content of outside air is very low compared to inside air. To remove moisture from in the boat you need to bring outside air into the boat and warm it up. this warmed outside air will be very dry and have the ability to absorb the moisture from within the boat.

A drip feed heater inconjunction with a couple of dorade vents can do this very well.
The problem with a blown air heater that just recirculates is that you need to open hatches to let some fresh air in. Effectively you are then in a position that you heaters is trying to heat the whole world! A Taylors or Dickinson type heater (or solid fuel) has a large component of radiant heat as well as convective. This heats up the internal surfaces of the boat and keeps them warm even when the actual air temperature in the boat is relatively low due to dorade vents being open. etc.
Humans are more comfortable sat in front of a hot radiant heat source like an open fire than a warm air heater. That a fact

You can use these heaters on the move too. I just have not needed to yet.

Blown air heaters are OK if you have access to shore power or alternative means of generating electricity. They use too much power for my liking. If your cruising is the hop from marina to marina variety then you will probably be OK. They do have the advantage that you can bring them on with a time clock controller. Not possible with a drip feed heater

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[jimi]

The Eberspacher brings in fresh air from the outside rather than recirculating cabin air

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