Wing Sail on a Morrelli & Melvin

[wingsail]

Is this the Perfect Catamaran?


"Winged technology has as many advantages for the 40-50 foot boat owner and
operator as it does for the superyacht operator. It's hands free, it's
safe, it's green and it has lower maintenance costs. It takes virtually no
manpower to keep a wing upright and to monitor the controls, yet traditional
soft sails require knowledgeable bodies to make sail changes and to trim
them. Thin-filmed solar sheets reduce fuel costs, because you're not running
engines all of the time to recharge batteries. It's a lot less expensive to
replace individual panels on wing elements than it is to replace old sails,"
said an enthusiastic Pete Melvin who is looking forward to seeing winged
multihull fleets of all sizes circling the globe.

www.morrellimelvin.com [image]

[image]http://www.harborwingtech.com/products_recreational.htm[/image]

Computer controled WingSailTM and sail-by-wire capability what are your thoughts?
See a demo at:
demo <span style="color:blue"> </span>

 

[bilbobaggins]

Now where have I seen something like this before? Oh, yes. Plymouth. How many of those are still attached to satisfied owners?

And, 'new user', this is blatant advertising of a commercial product..... Not much appreciated around here.
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[wingsail]

bilbobaggins

I am asking what evreyone thinks about this Wing !!
Walker Wings have been out for years and there are no new ones and it seems like this is a better design
this is different?
will it work ?
is there anyone out there that has a Winged boat, Land Sea, Ice.......... that is what I am looking for
WINGS

Every boat has a Designer builder owner

I am looking a getting a Winged Boat and Perhaps this Harbor Wing by Morrelli & Melvin..... and I need help

What are your thoughts

 

[Twister_Ken]

The great thing about buying new tec with your own money is to let someone else with deeper pockets and/or less common sense do the development work. Only buy into it yourself it when it is stable and proven.

 

[Tranona]

Just by what you say, you know the answer will be no because nobody of any consequence makes such a thing - and one wonders why?

More likely to get some reaction if the designers/builders publicised it in the normal way through the specialist press.

If you do buy one, please share your experiences with the forum.

 

[sarabande]

wingsail is still, as far as I know, a registered name of the company which built really advanced - yes - winsgsail trimarans about 15 years ago.

John Walker was the guy behind it, and deserved to have a lot more success than he achieved.

 

[jamesjermain]

Just one question for now. How do you park something like that somewhere like in a marina?

 

[wingsail]

[ QUOTE ]
Just one question for now. How do you park something like that somewhere like in a marina?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I was told the wing retracts in and does not go past the beam of the boat

I have read another blog about Walker and his wings, he has done a great job but wings have been around for over 60years. It is just now with the use of materials and the computer controls that make this so attractive

 

[Adonnante]

I guess it could put a mooring or anchor under severe pressure too. One additional thought, as it cannot be reefed what happens in heavy downwind conditions when a following sea screws the boat round, will the rig weathercock quickly enough to depower the situation. I'm not sure I would like to do those tests in a cat.

Peter.

 

[wingsail]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess it could put a mooring or anchor under severe pressure too. One additional thought, as it cannot be reefed what happens in heavy downwind conditions when a following sea screws the boat round, will the rig weathercock quickly enough to depower the situation. I'm not sure I would like to do those tests in a cat.

Peter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Peter from what I have found out about Wings WalkerWings have sailed around the world and been through some BAD storms. The wing feathers like a Wind Vane with less drag than a normal Rig
attached ( can not attache it is not a URL) is Stars and Stripes on a mooring in Mexico I have also heard of these Ice Boats with wings and they just park them over night with out taking down the wing and it gusts up to 40knts.
What I am looking for is there anyone else out there that might have a wing ready to be built ?

 

[Adonnante]

There is one of the old Walker Wingsails without its rig currently ashore in Southdown Marina http://www.southdownmarina.org/about.html . I was talking to the current owner last year and he is hoping to replace the the rig. Maybe if you forwarded your details to the marina manager he might pass them on, could be what he needs to make some progress with Walkers, now I believe in the US.

Peter.

 

[wingsail]

Some people think this is SPAM
it is not
I do NOT work for Morrelli and Melvin

I just like what they are doing and i am interested in everyones point of view

 

[snowleopard]

Re: Wing Sail on a Morrelli &amp; Melvin

I think I am qualified to have an opinion on that as I have sailed 17000 miles to date on a wing sail cat.

I note that it is called 'harbour wing'. A very apt name - though probably not intentional - a harbour being the only place I would consider it safe to sail!

For a start the idea of going long distance cruising with any vital system relying on computer control is crazy.

The biggest consideration though is having the full sail area up whatever the conditions. In theory the wing can weathercock and that is fine in flat water but out on the ocean in 50+ knots of wind, the boat is going to be thrown about by wave action causing wind to come at the rig in all directions, changing rapidly and particularly at different heights so that the guiding tail planes may be affected by a different airflow to the main plane. A gust hitting the main plane at say 7° would instantaneously produce maximum heeling force.

Tony Bullimore had wing masts on the ill-fated Exide Challenger. He was unable to feather them in heavy weather and found it very dangerous.

To make a wingsail a viable proposition for ocean sailing it needs -

-Manual control or manual backup to automatic control
-Ability to reduce the 'sail' area in heavy weather
-Ability to rotate 360° to remove drive in any conditions.

A particular problem with wingsails is a dead run in heavy weather. While reaching you can adjust the amount of drive by altering the angle of attack. When on a dead run, applying a small angle of attack produces only sideways, i.e. capsizing, thrust. That leaves only two options - totally feathered with no thrust and square to the wind with maximum thrust.

 

[wingsail]

Re: Wing Sail on a Morrelli &amp; Melvin

[ QUOTE ]
I think I am qualified to have an opinion on that as I have sailed 17000 miles to date on a wing sail cat.

I note that it is called 'harbour wing'. A very apt name - though probably not intentional - a harbour being the only place I would consider it safe to sail!

For a start the idea of going long distance cruising with any vital system relying on computer control is crazy.

The biggest consideration though is having the full sail area up whatever the conditions. In theory the wing can weathercock and that is fine in flat water but out on the ocean in 50+ knots of wind, the boat is going to be thrown about by wave action causing wind to come at the rig in all directions, changing rapidly and particularly at different heights so that the guiding tail planes may be affected by a different airflow to the main plane. A gust hitting the main plane at say 7° would instantaneously produce maximum heeling force.

Tony Bullimore had wing masts on the ill-fated Exide Challenger. He was unable to feather them in heavy weather and found it very dangerous.

To make a wingsail a viable proposition for ocean sailing it needs -

-Manual control or manual backup to automatic control
-Ability to reduce the 'sail' area in heavy weather
-Ability to rotate 360° to remove drive in any conditions.

A particular problem with wingsails is a dead run in heavy weather. While reaching you can adjust the amount of drive by altering the angle of attack. When on a dead run, applying a small angle of attack produces only sideways, i.e. capsizing, thrust. That leaves only two options - totally feathered with no thrust and square to the wind with maximum thrust.

[/ QUOTE ]

Snowleopard
Thank you so much This what I wanted to know from someone that has sailed MILES on these winged cats
Was it a Walker Wing ?
If I was to get a cat with a wing what would be your biggest concerns ? what would you want the builder of the boat/wing to do ? Change ? add ?

any other comments would be help full

( this is a Forum I was kicked off Yachts and Yachting trying to get information from someone like Snowleopard)
Keep up the great work)
YBW, I suport you

 

[snowleopard]

Re: Wing Sail on a Morrelli &amp; Melvin

Here is my rig. As you can see, the wing represents about 15% of the total area.

As the wind strength increases the wing plays a greater part until at gale force it is the only thing left. I have done 9 knots on a reach under mast alone.

I would not consider any larger area of <u>permanent</u> wing area for the reasons I have described previously. I believe that a full wing that can't be reduced in area is not a seamanlike rig for long-distance sailing.

I can see the point of such a rig for speed record attempts and I can see that it would have the same sort of efficiency gains over mine that mine has over stayed pole masts but for cruising? No way.

 

[wingsail]

Re: Wing Sail on a Morrelli &amp; Melvin

snowleopard
Thanks for the AeroRig
I see the benifits in an AeroRig................... but I do want in part the computer control if Aiplanes can have it why not boats
I like the Idea of the Hard wing for prefomance.
If Walker Wings have been through what they have been through the they have proven they work.
There is an A-Class and C-Class hard wings along with Ice and Land, Most of them are stayed and can not Rotate 360 degrees
can you give me anymore insites to a hard wing?

 

[snowleopard]

Re: Wing Sail on a Morrelli &amp;amp; Melvin

No, it's not an Aero rig, it's a Freewing, quite a different animal.

If you want a high-performance sailing machine for use close to land you'll get it with a solid wing. Stayed wings on day-racers are fine. References to 'circling the globe' are another matter entirely.

I have seen 2 Walkers, one couldn't manoeuvre in flat water, the other lost its rig. I have been unable to find any testimonies to their ocean-going capabilities.

If you're looking for someone to validate your ideas I'm not the one.

 

[wingsail]

answers to the questions

Overview: The Harbor Wing Technologies Wingsail™
Frequently Asked Questions

A WingSail That Is Efficient and Easy To Use

Over many years, the potential benefits of WingSails for modern sailing vessels have been studied and discussed. Throughout his career David Hubbard, a member of the Harbor Wing design team, has designed well-known and very successful “hand-controlled” versions deployed on extremely fast vessels such as the winged America’s Cup winner "Stars and Stripes" [+} Read More
Uniquely Designed Control System Provides Unparalleled Safety
Since the Harbor Wing WingSail rotates 360 degrees it is effectively uncoupled from the vessel platform below it. Because the inertial forces of the vessel are uncoupled from the aeronautical forces of the sail plan, the Wingsail will instantly and efficiently regulate the power produced regardless of the course of the boat (except inside 20 degree true wind angle). [+} Read More

So with this introduction, we would like to provide answers to some of the most Frequently Asked Questions:
What is new here? Hasn’t this been done before?
What happens when the boat is docked or moored in heavy wind?
How do you reef the WingSail?
What makes the WingSail turn?
What controls the WingSail angle of attack?
How do you trim the WingSail for varying top to bottom wind conditions?
There are no stays. How does the WingSail keep from breaking off in rough seas?
How well does the WingSail perform up and down wind?
How would you pilot a recreational catamaran with the WingSail system?
What happens if power or a computer fails?
Can WingSails be applied to Monohulls?
What other applications are there for the Harbor Wing system?
What is new here? Hasn’t this been done before?
The Harbor Wing system is a culmination of years of research, development, testing and refinement. The initial thing that is unique and new about the Harbor Wing system is that it is first and foremost designed for more control, more safety and greater reliability than ever before. [+} Read More

GO HERE for your questions

http://www.harborwingtech.com/faq.htm