windward sailing

[clyst]

Why is it that no one seems to sail to windward these days . Came out of Fowey the other day lovely sunshine SE3-4 blowing - (not an ideal wind for sailing to Plymouth but a good sailing breeze nonetheless). As I started tacking towards Plymouth I noticed most of the "plastic"fleet ,also Plymouth bound ,were motoring .Got me thinking , this seems to be the norm now - what happened to the days when yachtsmen used their engines as auxilaries instead of main propulsion?

Cheers all

Terry

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[Rowana]

Could be a couple of reasons. I don't think that some of the modern "Plastic fantastics" sail as well as some of the more "traditional" hull shapes, so if the wind is from anywhere forward of the beam, it's on with the engine. Before I get slated again, there are exceptions to this of course.

Could also be that today's typical yachting person just wants to get from A to B asap so that they can tie up to a different marina berth than their own, go ashore for a meal/refreshment, then back again the next day as fast as possible just so that they can get back to the rat-race on monday morning.

That's my perception anyway. I have plenty of time to sail now that I've taken early retirement. Just one small problem - I haven't got a boat! I'm still looking, but in the meantime, if anyone is looking for crew . . . .

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[Twister_Ken]

In the days of Good Old Blighty, of course, auxiliary engines were generally less powerful, and certainly less reliable. So it was used as a last resort, or for the final stages of parking, not as an everyday means of locomotion.

Names to recall with fear and loathing - Stuart Turner, Vire, Petter, Morris, etc

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[ccscott49]

Some people are "passage making" and have to, to make a deadline/not a lot of holiday time/keep the crew/swmbo/kids happy. Some have the time to sail and don't need to go anywhere and do so, different strokes. Fairly obvious really.

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[Sybarite]

Usually when I set off it's with a destination in mind. If by turning on the engine I can get there early enough to enjoy a swim on a beach or to get to the restaurant then I don't hesitate. The sea is the attraction for me, preferably under sail but not if it's to sit there at under 2 or 3 knots. If no particular destination (rare), then no problem.

John

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[Cornishman]

Those who have to get from A to B as quickly as possible should go by road/rail/air, shouldn't they? Maybe I am getting (or got) old, but I was brought up to believe that cruising under sail was not for those who had to be somewhere at any particular time.
In the days of my youth a gentleman was defined as 'never a leg to windward and never a night at sea'.

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[Guest]

The other matter is some don't like the slog or pound to windward !!

My boat is slow to w/ward and is better with the donkey giving it helping 'hand'. Downwind with stiff breeze just about gets her going !!!!

But I do prefer to knock of the donkey as soon as humanly possible ......... isn't it nice just listening to the slap and swish of the water ...... punctuated by Radio Check please ..... or better still ..... Hey luv - pass me that beer ....!!



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[max_power]

< I noticed most of the "plastic"fleet ,also Plymouth bound ,were motoring .>


I notice from your details that you are a wooden boat builder.

Your post is suggesting that ‘plastic’ boatowners tend not sail to windward and that wooden boatowners do.

Or have I assumed wrongly?



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[kesey]

As an owner of a fine plastic fantastic, the excellent Beneteau 393, I am happy to sail to windward with the best of them. You'll even find me doing it in December and January.

Come on over to the South of Ireland and enjoy some fine sailing, upwind and downwind. Fair winds and following seas,

kesey

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[Mr Cassandra]

Hi .It could also be that most of the old wooden boats ,have underpowerd engins
that will not go to windward, or will not start !!!
cheers bob

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[clyst]

Totally wrong!!! My comments were observations not critisms to any type of craft. As any experience sailor knows there are many yachts irrispective of material that do not sail well to windward. Its down to design. It just seems that more and more people when confronted with head winds drop the headsail and motor rather than sail . This isnt about plastic verses wood this about people!

Terry

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[Talbot]

Holds hand up in shame - I frequently motor to windward when the tide is against me, but purely because with 2 knots of tide I normally dont really get very far sailing. Hull mods this winter are expected to assist (hopefully)

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[Ohdrat]

my guess is that the high volume and proportionally wide boats are uncomfortable to windward as they tend to smash into the waves.. the more traditional slim hulls have a much easier motion to windward..

I would also hazzard another guess that the roller furling genoas do not trim as well as the older hanked on varieties

Bigger more reliable aux engines



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[Windfall]

I have to agree with Ken, when we had a lovely, new, quiet running and reliable Yanmar we would put the engine on pretty much every time boat speed fell below 3 knots...

now we have an old, smelly, leaky, unreliable & noisy petter - well we drifted home this afternoon with a top speed of 2 knots! Even though its a school day tomorrow....the engine is even more evil than tired kids!





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[Birdseye]

Not really surprising . Faced with a dead noser (is it ever anything else?) the very large majority of boats will make better progress direct to destination under engine, than tacking under sail. The exceptions are the old boats with underpowered auxiliaries of doubtful reliablility, and thats not so much beccause of good sailing ability as poor motoring ability. In other words, people sailed to windward in the past because there wasnt an effective alternative - had there been one, who knows?

To my mind, the puzzle is why we continue to buy sailboats when we spend so much time under engine. So for much of the season we motor along in what is a very poor motor boat, looking forward to that once-in-a-blue-moon off shore force 4 beam reach.

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[clyst]

Thats exactly my point why buy an expensive sailing boat when if faced with a head wind your' re just going to motor? you just aswell buy a motor boat and have done with it since as you say sods law will nearly always prevail and the wind will be in the wrong direction. For me sailing is the fun not getting from AtoB as quick as I can . I checked and have clocked 1358 miles this year 23 hrs run on engine =115mls aprox. Not bad for a small wooden boat??

Cheers

Terry

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[Aeolus_IV]

That doesn't sound too unreasonable, 3 knots is slow and would extend a channel crossing in our neck of the woods to 20+ hours. What has amazed me about our local "crusing" fleet is that these days if they can't sail at 6 knots, then on goes the engine. Less of a cruise, more of a sprint everywhere.

Pitty us in our slow boat (its apparently too small and too slow), when we were asked if we'd like to joing them they asked if we would maintain 6 knots - I said "no", I'd normally only recon on sailing at an average 5 knots if there was enough wind, and motor at this speed as it is comfortable. We were then condemed by this chap to leaving hours ahead of them, in the dark of the morning on our own, so we'd get there at the same time as them. So much for cruising in company. Needless to say we declined their offer, we can sail on our own any time. It seems that when they go anywhere they leave at the last possible moment and stick to schedule - don't understand they don't dump the sails and save themselves the inconvienence.

Still haven't cruised anywhere in company yet - maybe next year now. Have found others of like mind (or similar slow boats).

Regards, Jeff.

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[Jacket]

That really is one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard in a long time.

So the only reason for owning a yacht is to sail? In that case, I'd better sell my boat.

Yes, part of the joy is the sailing, and as often as possible I'll sail. This year I've not gone far, so sailed at every possible opportunity, no matter how little wind - looking at my log I've averaged less than 3 knots over the season.

But for me, and I'd imagine many others, another of the joys of boat ownership is visiting new places. And if you're going to do that, using the engine makes that much easier. Over the last two years I've sailed to Estonia and back. I recon I motored rather than sailed every third day, due to lack of wind. On these days I covered a reasonable milage (50 or 60 miles- my boat only does 5 knots). If I hadn't used the engine I'd only have got to southern Sweden in the time available, so I'm very glad I used the engine, as it ment I got to visit some amazing places. And yes, I could have gone by road/rail/air, but it wouldn't have been anywhere as good. I'd have missed all the sailing I did get in, would have been unlikely to have found some of the wonderful places I did end up in, while people in the smaller, out of the way places are much more friendly to people who turn up in a small boat, than tourists who turn up by car or coach. If I'd had a decent engine, rather than a noisy single cylinder donkey I'd probably have motored even more, so as to have had time to visit Russia as well.

And its much the same for weekend sailors. Fowey is a fair slog from Plymouth, while many of the people who keep their boat in plymouth have a fair journry to get there- when I kept my boat there I had a 4 hour drive, and many of the other people I knew down there travelled even further. We all have to be at work on Monday, so don't want to be getting home too late. So there are two choices. Either, we only sail in the immediate area, which provides nice sailing, but doesn't give much scope for visiting new and interesting places. Or we sail further afield on saturday, and have a good sail in the process, and accept the fact that we may have to motor back on Sunday if we're to get home in time to do all the odd jobs that need doing.

I know which of the two options I prefer.


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[SydneyTim]

It's pretty simple for me I sail to windward as long as the VMG will get me where I'm going by the time I need to get there. Type of boat, size of engine, pointing ability, and how recently the prop was cleaned all affect that calculation.

I guess a lot of people when choosing somewhere to go for the weekend will base it on averaging 5 knots and maybe chuck on a bit of extra distance to avoid the crowds. Then if they wake on Sunday to a windward beat in light winds they can't average 5kts and on comes the engine.

Look on the bright side if you're the only guy sailing to windward at least you haven't got to worry about port and starboard and relative bearings

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[clyst]

Talk about redicuous statements ----- of course the reason for owning a yacht is to sail why else would you buy one ! ------ You're missing the point this isnt about motoring when the wind drops or when there is no wind its about motoring when confronted with a headwind instead of tacking into it . No one seems to don oillies
"batten"down and plug on. Not talking about thrashing into aF8 just a normal sailing breeze bits of spray and all that! Thats all .
Anyway sounds that you enjoyed your trip to Estonia, was that in your GK24? If so good on you ! Respect!

Regards Terry

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