Windlasses - types - Do I need one

[george unthank]

I have touched on this previously , and have just been chastened for intruding in The Lounge , which apparently is a rude and unbecoming thing to do .
Regarding the Windlass-
Now I need more detail if I may.
There is no windlass in the craft I am purchasing . She is a 26' regal. D3 Diesel engine .Avg weight for her size I would imagine
Can anyone help me with regard to :
1.
Do I need a windlass firstly if I do most of my sailing /cruising alone
2.
I believe there are 'manual' windlasses which entail some gearing mechanism to lighten the load- are these cumbersome ? I've heard that they are v .slow to haul in anchor but I imagine that would depend on gearing ratio.
3.
Do these ' Manual' types have a 'change gear option to take in slack chain before you're in up/down posit.?
4.
Electric windlasses - Are they expensive ? How much for a serviceable one for this boat ?
5.
Are they easy to install ? -again an ambiguous question. I am not proficient mechanically . But would it be a reasonable thing to expect for a ' handy man' to install. By this I mean someone who can diagnose and fix / replace bearings on my trailer - Is that a challenging job -one that might serve as parameter of his ability .?
I know this is vague, but what I really want to know is whether it involves securing windlass to a solid part of the bow, and drilling holes to secure it ? And would that entail getting a qualified mechanic to do job.?
6
Has anyone experienced installing an electric windlass - How difficult is it in your estimation and where are the main pitfalls whereby the installation might prove unreliable later in service
7
Do they work off main battery - one which starts engine .
8.
Do they run down a batt .or take a major charge from batt. if engine is
a/running
b/ not running - guess this is obvious - but would it run down batt such that it might not be able to crank engine after ( me or one of my untrained crew ) lifting anchor with electric windlass inadvertently with engine off.
9.
Where might I source a choice of windlasses and how would I determine the ''pulling power'' expressed in watts(?) or whatever metric they use - how would I usefully apply that to my craft . Do I need to know precise weight of craft

Any and all of your observations would , as usual be deeply appreciated

 

[boguing]

You don't need one on any boat that has a combined weight of anchor and line that you are happy to lift manually.

If you take in the slack as the boat is above the anchor, motoring in any direction will break it out and then you are just lifting it to the surface.

Obviously, all rope is easiest, all chain harder.

Eg. In Greece anchoring in Spartakhori is a nightmare with all chain. Depth is well over 50 feet, so I was lifting that amount of chain and the anchor.

We went electric eventually, because I found that the difference in cost wasn't that great.

If I'd found a cheap manual, that would have been my choice.

Electrics? Usually heavy cable direct to the battery with its' own isolator, fuse and switch.

Installation. You should use a friend or boatbuilder with experience. A mechanic might see the +/- of any location. You will both have to consider where the rope or chain goes after it's been around the windlass.

 

[TQA]

I would say that an anchor windlass would be low on my priority list.

30lb anchor plus 50 feet 5/16 chain should weigh less than 90 lbs together.

Just sit down and pull. I did for a year or two on a boat with double the above. Mind you it was good when I got the windlass running!

 

[2nd_apprentice]

You could fit a Claude Worth pattern chain pawl or use a rolling hitch and make your winch do the hard work but I wouldn't fit a windlass.

 

[Norman_E]

With a fairly light boat, and therefore a light anchor and 6 or 8mm chain you can get it in by hand, but if you are single handed being able to control the boat whilst the windlass gets the chain in is priceless. I suggest you see what the boat manufacturers recommendations for windlass type were, as well as checking how large a chain locker is provided.

 

[Tranona]

No problem handling ground tackle for that size of boat manually. However if you have one of those precarious foredecks, then there is value in considering a windlass which you can operate from the cockpit/helm rather than standing on the deck. Very few manual windlasses made now as electric ones have become better and more affordable. Not difficult to install - main issues are checking that the foredeck is strong enough to take it, there is enough fall for the chain into the locker, running the heavy duty power cables and having enough battery capacity to use it. All the manufacturers (Lofrans, Quick, Lewmar, Vetus etc) publish good information on choosing and installing one.

 

[maxi77]

Certainly the likely anchor and chain can be handled by hand but an electric windlass with a remote control cam make singlehanding a lot better and more comfortable. In the end it is down to your budget and the list of 'must' haves.

 

[BruceDanforth]

Are you young and reasonably fit or old and doddery?

 

[george unthank]

old and dogerry

the latter .. the latter ..and it's not getting any better, Aging is something I thoroughly disprove of . it should be confined to snakes and rats ..
I do not recommend it . It is best avoided.

 

[BruceDanforth]

Perhaps an electric windlass is the way forward then. You don't want hauling the chain up to knacker you and spoil your day.

 

[William_H]

Anchor winch

I gather you have decided to buy the boat so why not do some sailing before you decide what is needed.
Obviously you only need an anchor winch if you are anchoring over night single handed. (ie you don't have a fit young man to do the pulling)
As said manual winches are not worth the cost go electric. However you need to decide on what anchor gear you are going to use. Anchor winch comes into its own with all chain rode that self stows into an anchor locker. If you get it right you can control the whole job from the helm.
If you go rope and chain then i9t is easier to lift by hand but not so convenient for remote launch and recovery.
I would advocate use the engine battery (I think your only battery) to power the winch over heavy cables to the bow. You will usually only lift the anchor with engine running and charging so no concerns. Your winch with light anchor and chain should not draw too much current anyway. If you really are concerned wire the winch up via a VSR which will only allow winch to operate with engine running.
However far better to spend a little more money and fit a second battery and VSR to charge it. I would still run the winch off the engine battery but then you would have a stand by battery if engine battery fails or is discharged.
I reiterate consider the whole system as one ie anchor chain, chain locker, winch anchor and anchor stowage. it can be marvelous if you do a lot of anchoring. But if you find you just go out on jollies and return home then perhaps a waste of money for you. A decent anchor on rope and chain would be OK for emergencies and occasional use. good luck olewill

 

[prv]

Aging is something I thoroughly disprove of . it should be confined to snakes and rats ..

And cheese and wine as well, surely?

Pete

 

[charles_reed]

I have touched on this previously , and have just been chastened for intruding in The Lounge , which apparently is a rude and unbecoming thing to do .
Regarding the Windlass-
Now I need more detail if I may.
There is no windlass in the craft I am purchasing . She is a 26' regal. D3 Diesel engine .Avg weight for her size I would imagine
Can anyone help me with regard to :
1.
Do I need a windlass firstly if I do most of my sailing /cruising alone
2.
I believe there are 'manual' windlasses which entail some gearing mechanism to lighten the load- are these cumbersome ? I've heard that they are v .slow to haul in anchor but I imagine that would depend on gearing ratio.
3.
Do these ' Manual' types have a 'change gear option to take in slack chain before you're in up/down posit.?
4.
Electric windlasses - Are they expensive ? How much for a serviceable one for this boat ?
5.
Are they easy to install ? -again an ambiguous question. I am not proficient mechanically . But would it be a reasonable thing to expect for a ' handy man' to install. By this I mean someone who can diagnose and fix / replace bearings on my trailer - Is that a challenging job -one that might serve as parameter of his ability .?
I know this is vague, but what I really want to know is whether it involves securing windlass to a solid part of the bow, and drilling holes to secure it ? And would that entail getting a qualified mechanic to do job.?
6
Has anyone experienced installing an electric windlass - How difficult is it in your estimation and where are the main pitfalls whereby the installation might prove unreliable later in service
7
Do they work off main battery - one which starts engine .
8.
Do they run down a batt .or take a major charge from batt. if engine is
a/running
b/ not running - guess this is obvious - but would it run down batt such that it might not be able to crank engine after ( me or one of my untrained crew ) lifting anchor with electric windlass inadvertently with engine off.
9.
Where might I source a choice of windlasses and how would I determine the ''pulling power'' expressed in watts(?) or whatever metric they use - how would I usefully apply that to my craft . Do I need to know precise weight of craft

Any and all of your observations would , as usual be deeply appreciated

I'd suggest you try it out - the boat and tackle size are well within manual lift capabilities (unless you suffer from arthritis in the hands in which case a windlass is essential).
You can get suitable electric winches for about £1000 from www.chandlerybarge.co.uk.
I have a manual SL Anchorman, which is quite adequate, for a larger boat with heavier tackle and, probably, greater age-related disability. These are discontinued but a 2nd hand one should be reasonably easy to obtain. It has the major advantage of being small and unobtrusive.
New manual winches are not too different in price (60%) from the electric one from the supplier quoted.
The drawback with an electric winch is the high cost of wiring and the ancillaries (even done by yourself) and the fact that your engine-start battery is, almost certainly, badly placed and inadequate for the task you have in mind. For that reason I'd budget another £600 at least for fitting.
It is best practice to always have the engine running before operating the winch (whether electric or manual).
That they are a major task to install properly is evidenced by the fact that I have put it off for another 12-months.
A 750 watt unit should be more than adequate for the boat and will pull about 120 amps at start-up under load. It will be far more punishing to your battery than starting the engine.
Lofrans are generally accepted to be winners, in Europe, their major competitor are Quick and Lofrans have produced a cheapened brand to compete with Quick.
The type of windlass (vertical or horizontal) is dictated by the chain-fall, available space and mounting-point strength.

All in all not a project for the unskilled - finding an "expert" will also be a hard task - the marine engineering scene is bursting with those whose ambitions exceed their expertise.