Windlass Wiring HELP

[Good]

What is the best way to wire a anchor windlass ?
1. cabels all the way to battery bank at the back of the boat?
2. battery (60amp) install close to windlass up front in the boat?

Please some input !!!

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[Paulka]

Hmmm!
Both.
You'll have to run the wires anyway. Thus, choose them big enough to be able to run the windlass directly from the starting battery, then you're free to install or not to install a dedicated battery for the windlass, which will be charged through the existing wires.
That's how I did it, and I am fully happy with this solution.
BTW, a 40-45 ah car battery (starting battery) is more than enough to run a windlass.

IMHO of course.

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[Talbot]

Conventional wisdom is that battery should be as close to windlass as possible. Your battery seems a little on the small size, mine is 110 amp/hr but I have a 1000w windlass and the battery is also driving a bow thruster.
One wiring method is at this link http://www.yandina.com/bank3.htm
however an alternative to this is available by using http://www.adverc.co.uk/products/products.asp?cat=11

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[pvb]

Simplest solution...

The simplest solution is to run cables from your domestic battery bank to the windlass. This also avoids the extra weight of a battery right in the bows. For your boat, 25 sq mm cable should be sufficient. Be sure to have a circuit breaker or fuse at the battery end of the cable.

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[lookout]

Re: Simplest solution...

I agree, you've got to run wires anyway, so make them large enough to do the job. Measure the total (there & back) cable length, find out the maximum current drawn (manufacturers spec should say) & size the cable to keep voltage drop below 0.5V .........or like pvb says, fit 25 sq mm, shd be fine.

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[vyv_cox]

I recently did this job on my Sadler 34. Unless you have a super-yacht, you will almost certainly find it cheaper to buy the large diameter cable than to buy a new battery. This is by far the better solution, saving lots of hassle that an additional battery forward is likely to provide. It's a permanent solution, whereas your additional battery will need to be replaced at some stage, plus it will require maintenance.

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[MainlySteam]

Despite some advice to the contrary, the usual best practice is to connect your windlass to your engine cranking battery.

If your service battery set is deep cycle (as they should be) then unless the bank is large it is likely that they will not be able to provide the high current required by a windlass of any size without a significant voltage drop. That is the nature of batteries with thick plates as they have higher internal resistance. That voltage drop, combined with that on the cable run increases the likelihood of overheating and failure of the windlass motor (a not uncommon problem).

A cranking battery will provide high currents at less voltage drop and is designed to do so (it has thinner plates so its internal resistance is lower). In fact, most small windlass motors are modified automotive cranking motors.

Whichever batteries are used, they should be under charge from the alternator when the windlass is in use, again to minimise voltage drop and so protect the windlass motor.

It is my opinion that the breaker in the DC supply should be rated to fail at comparatively low currents so that the windlass motor is protected against overheating. As a guide, we have found that a 150 amp breaker on a 1.2 kW motor is about right - it throws if there is a significant overload during hauling, or if an overload exists for more than a short time. For safety reasons my view is one should stay away from fuses unless they are rated not to fail under any motor load condition ie they are sized not to protect the motor and they exceed its locked rotor current (in which case the cables have to be sized for the locked rotor current) and that does not seem sensible to me.

As Vyv says, avoid the temptation to place a dedicated battery at the bow of the boat. It is, at best, an uneconomic solution.

John

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[Birdseye]

i use a 90 amp trip on a 1000w lofrans and it very rarely trips out.

if your concern is the cost of cable, then investigate using electric arc welding cable (its well insulated and very flexible) from an engineers sundries merchant. ok, its not tinned as the pukka stuff would be, but its way way cheaper and available in different sizes. i used it and havent had any problems in 4 years.

disagree with the comment about the engine starter battery. if your engine is running, the alternator output could be as high as 60A which with a 1000w windlass leaves 30 odd from the batteries. cant see this being a problem with any type of battery for the short bursts involved. personally, i would rather have absolutely nothing but the engine connected to the starter battery.

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[MainlySteam]

Perhaps I should make the point that the breaker rating should be related to the normal maximum current draw of the motor without overload but, of course, if your anchor and chain is light when compared to the windlass's pull ability then one can get away with a smaller breaker.

I would suspect that on a 1000 lb pull windlass (probably around 1 kW) a standard breaker size nearest to 110 amps or over (approx 1.25 times normal max operating current of the windlass) would enable the full capacity of the windlass to be exploited. The maker will usually document what the normal max current draw is and the stalled current (typically 3-4 times the max).

On the use of the start battery for the windlass supply, there is also a safety reason involved in that it is, typically, the battery which is usually at the highest state of charge on the vessel. It would be unusual for a cranking battery to be at anything other than close to full charge unless it has been neglected. There is no safety reason that I am aware of not to use it, assuming it is adequately sized for the duty (for mid boats sizes a normal 4x4 vehicle cranking battery is perfect, and smaller vessels require less) but if there is a safety reason I would be interested to hear of it.

Cranking batteries tend to end their lives suddenly (or perhaps their decline is less noticed both becasue they are lightly used and often not maintained) so if one is concerned about safety and protecting the ability of the engine to be cranked, then one is best to provide the ability to interchange both the service and the cranking loads from one battery bank to the other.

John


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[tome]

Lofrans recommend at least 150Ah battery for their Cayman 1000W windlass, a 40-45 Ah battery won't deliver sufficient cranking power.

Agree with MainlySteam that the engine cranking battery is the best option to run the windlass, and the engine should be running when it's in use. You need to run heavy cables up to the windlass to prevent voltage loss.

Size of circuit breaker will depend on ground tackle in use, but around 100A minimum.

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[Birdseye]

dont know why lofrans recommend such a battery size ( a one minute run on a 1000w windlass would be less than 2 ah consumption) but if they are correct they rule out most starter batteries on most boats.

i agree that the starter battery is the one most likely to be fully charged and i would prefer to keep it so by keeping it pure. if there is a safety issue, it is in the ability to start the engine - i can manually raise the anchor but cannot manually start the engine.

however, the golden rule is to use the windlass with the engine running so the whole debate is a bit theoretical. it doesnt really matter either way.



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[MainlySteam]

I, of course, do not know Lofrans reasons either, but I suspect it is to do with the battery's ability to provide the high current for an extended period of time (while the time is still short, it is extended several hundredfold compared to the normal cranking duty the battery is designed for). In cranking, I would assume that the current draw doesn't even take the surface capacity off the plates, whereas for extended draw in an anchor haul I would assume it will be well past that point and the internal resistance of the battery will increase considerably and the voltage drop.

Another possibility for their recommendation may be that they are providing for normal anchoring depth ranges. While if one always anchors in shallow water a small battery may be quite adequate, a recommendation should take account of the wider use the windlass may be put to. For example, in our normal cruising grounds we very rarely have the luxury of anchoring in less than around 20m and frequently more.

As I said before, if one is concerned about the reliability of ones cranking battery (and the chance of failure of that is many times more likely to be from end of life that from the fact that a windlass is attached) then one should ensure that one can interconnect the house batteries for starting. While we maintain our batteries well, over the years we have been caught several times with a failed cranking battery, but have still been able to crank the engine. If we did not have the battery banks interconnected I would, because of the short life of cranking batteries, change the cranking battery every 2 years for safety.

In the end, it obviously gets down to personal preference and I am not challenging your case at all. Just setting out some of the general considerations which I would apply to the care of a new vessel with which I was involved. I am always on the prowl for others views - right or wrong they add clarity.

John

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