Windlass too weak

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Boh999

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Hi!

Just mounted the Lewmar V2 windlass:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwBUlhnPjkstZzRHd2tqeHpNUE0

Why is it not able to lift the 20 kg Spade-anchor? If it can't do that, it won't work, right? Nothing stuck.

If you look carefully in the beginning of the movie, you'll notice it is spinning but not pulling the chain. It was able to pull 60 m of chain without the anchor.

Got zero experience with windlasses. Followed the manual when mounting.

Cheers
 
Champagne Murphy said:
Sounds like electrical supply. Battery ok? What cross section are the leads from battery to windlass? How long are they?
Click to expand...

Interesting reply. The cable from the engine to the contactor marked D1. It is not 25 mm2 like the other two cables, as we ran out of 25 mm2, so put 6 mm2 there just to be able to get the chain inside.

Do you think it's that simple? If I buy more 25 mm2 and replace the 6 mm2 it'll work?

I figured it shouldn't make that much difference. That cable is around 5 m. All other high ampere cabling is 25 mm2, as the manual says to use that size for my lengths.

I hope this it the culprit. Battery is 105 Ah, bought a year ago, but have kept it charged. We tested with engine running. Seemed to make no difference.
 
If it is turning without lifting the anchor it looks as if the clutch is slipping. You may need to tighten the clutch with the winch handle provided, but not too much. You should try to dismantle the winch and learn how it works because it will need servicing from time to time to prevent it seizing if it is anything like mine.
 
There is an enormous difference between 25mm2 and 6mm2 cable and the voltage drops. surprised that you have not burnt out the 6mm2. If your not sure, measure the voltage at the windless when running it, bet you will be very surprised at the voltage drop.
 
So tighten the top part, using a winch. This is interesting. I will first replace the cable to 25 mm2 then try your advice. What could happen it I tighten it too hard?

We bought the windlass together with the chain and the dealer said they were compatible. It's 10 mm2 chain. 60 m in length.

Cheers
 
I've just looked again and as johnalison just posted looksvlike the clutch is slipping and needs tightening, we had to tighten ours when fitted last year more than I expected
 
Daverw said:
There is an enormous difference between 25mm2 and 6mm2 cable and the voltage drops. surprised that you have not burnt out the 6mm2. If your not sure, measure the voltage at the windless when running it, bet you will be very surprised at the voltage drop.
Click to expand...

The 6 mm2 cable didn't get hot.

The battery went down to 12,3 V when using it when engine running. Seems ok I suppose.
 
Daverw said:
I've just looked again and as johnalison just posted looksvlike the clutch is slipping and needs tightening, we had to tighten ours when fitted last year more than I expected
Click to expand...

Can't wait to get to the boat and try this. :) (+ replace cable)
 
Bear in mind that if the clutch is slipping, the windlass will not be under much mechanical (and therefore electrical) load. Once you tighten it to stop the clutch slipping, those 6mm cables are going to be doing a lot of work...
 
stevie69p said:
Bear in mind that if the clutch is slipping, the windlass will not be under much mechanical (and therefore electrical) load. Once you tighten it to stop the clutch slipping, those 6mm cables are going to be doing a lot of work...
Click to expand...

ok so order is:
1. replace cable
2. tighten clutch

:)
 
Boh999 said:
So tighten the top part, using a winch. This is interesting. I will first replace the cable to 25 mm2 then try your advice. What could happen it I tighten it too hard?

We bought the windlass together with the chain and the dealer said they were compatible. It's 10 mm2 chain. 60 m in length.

Cheers
Click to expand...

What size is your boat? 10mm chain and a 20kg Spade is really heavy duty stuff. Even if the anchor is oversize, 8mm chain is more than adequate.
 
And only use the windlass with the engine running. 105a/hr battery, if it is the house and windlass battery, is quite wimpy for a 10mm chain and 20 kg anchor. I'd question size as well - unless your yacht is 45'-50'.

And I agree with previous posts - beef up cables, tighten nut/clutch, and learn how to service the windlass.


Finally is the fall of the chain as far away from the electric motor as possible. Before you start using in anger - spray the motor with some water resistant coating, they are simply mild steel and corrode easily and quickly if the chain falls anywhere near them. Most motors can be swung though 360 degrees to keep them away from the chain.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
And only use the windlass with the engine running. 105a/hr battery, if it is the house and windlass battery, is quite wimpy for a 10mm chain and 20 kg anchor. I'd question size as well - unless your yacht is 45'-50'.

And I agree with previous posts - beef up cables, tighten nut/clutch, and learn how to service the windlass.


Finally is the fall of the chain as far away from the electric motor as possible. Before you start using in anger - spray the motor with some water resistant coating, they are simply mild steel and corrode easily and quickly if the chain falls anywhere near them. Most motors can be swung though 360 degrees to keep them away from the chain.

Jonathan
Click to expand...

Hi!

Here's another video:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byb-0zc-Apk8SlFTdlhncVJjd3c/view?usp=sharing

It's a Norlin 37. 8 tons when new in 1974, we're more like 9 tons crusing around the archipelago here in the Baltic Sea. And we'll be 10 tons when leaving Las Palmas next year, crossing the Atlantic (I suppose? With all the water, food, diesel etc, just a figure).

Seller recommended this stuff. We are used to anchor from the Stern, 10 kg anchor, towards a rock on an island in the Archipelago. That's how everybody does it here, leeward of course, taking into account how the wind will turn during the night.

I have learned that in other places of the world, it is different. Again, some people here actually own windlasses and anchor with them, take the dinghy to shore etc, but it is seen as a "long distance cruising activity" here.

So to make things simple, we bought 60 m of chain which we heard will suffice in the Carribbean.

First practice run will be next weekend. I and some guys going to:
https://goo.gl/maps/fJXGCgLJS6C2

Judging from current weather prognosis, we'll be anchoring on the north-east side. No harbour due to shifting sand. So we'll practice using the windlass and take the dinghy ashore.

So you just go full speed ashore and pull up the outboard when you're close, right? :)

A few words on the electric system.

4 x 75 Ah = HOUSE BANK. Close to engine in stern part. Everything goes here (except windlass) including starting the engine. 310 W solar panels.
1 x 105 Ah = WINDLASS BANK. Bow part of boat, close to windlass. Connected the boat alarm here also, but takes virtually 0% power. 50 W solar panel close to bank.

Both banks are charged by engine + shore power via Sterling Alternator to Battery 80 A:
https://sterling-power.com/products/alternator-to-battery-chargers-up-to-130a

Seems to work fine. 25 mm2 from Sterling to Windlass bank means quite long cable run, therefore the 50 W close to Windlass bank, to keep it topped up as the Sterling won't charge 100% due to Voltage drop.

Cabling from windlass battery to windlass according to manual = 25 mm2, here shorter cable runs.

If I am unfortunate and windlass takes most of its Amps from the long cable run (Sterling to Windlass Bank), it is still enough cable diameter to not trip the fuse on that cable. At least that's how I calculated this.

I noticed that the Windlass bank dropped to 12,3 V when using Windlass even with engine running, so windlass seems to be taking Amps from the battery = good. I noticed 35 A going from the Sterling to Windlass bank also.

I think that the existance of the Windlass bank here does reduce the Voltage drop experienced by the Windlass? If there was only a long 25 mm2 cable from Sterling directly to Windlass, it would be more Voltage drop experienced by the Windlass? I hope this is correct.

The water resistant coating, do you have a product link please?
 
Last edited:
Boh999 said:
Hi!

The water resistant coating, do you have a product link please?
Click to expand...

I don't think an Australian product will be economic - talk to your local paint shop, they'll have a recommendation. Any coating that will reduce corrosion (even lanolin).

I think something went wrong with your introduction - you cannot really mean 37.8t

I assume its 37' and 8t.

If it is possible I'd change to 8mm chain and get more of it but you will need to change the gypsy and be persuasive of whoever you bought from. You should be on firm ground, 10mm is really big nd the purveyor made the recommendation - canvas support here (I'm happy to be shot down!). More chain, of a smaller size, will be more useful than short length of heavy chain. The 20kg Spade is fine (far too big in my view - but I'm a distinct minority!).

Let us know how you progress.

Good luck

Jonathan

Edit

As you are from the Baltic and 'it' might be unusual there - invest in a decent snubber for your rode, think minimum of boat length and around 12mm nylon. Mr Google will throw up information if you look for 'snubber + anchor'. There will be an article in Sailing Today (UK) in December and there was one in August's issue of Sail (US) and there have been a 2 or 3 articles in Practical Sailor (US). You could also look at the Knox Anchor website, Prof Knox had some, or a, good article(s) on snubbers.

Close edit
 
Last edited:
Boh999 said:
Hi!

Here's another video:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byb-0zc-Apk8SlFTdlhncVJjd3c/view?usp=sharing

It's a Norlin 37. 8 tons when new in 1974, we're more like 9 tons crusing around the archipelago here in the Baltic Sea. And we'll be 10 tons when leaving Las Palmas next year, crossing the Atlantic (I suppose? With all the water, food, diesel etc, just a figure).

Seller recommended this stuff. We are used to anchor from the Stern, 10 kg anchor, towards a rock on an island in the Archipelago. That's how everybody does it here, leeward of course, taking into account how the wind will turn during the night.

I have learned that in other places of the world, it is different. Again, some people here actually own windlasses and anchor with them, take the dinghy to shore etc, but it is seen as a "long distance cruising activity" here.

So to make things simple, we bought 60 m of chain which we heard will suffice in the Carribbean.

First practice run will be next weekend. I and some guys going to:
https://goo.gl/maps/fJXGCgLJS6C2

Judging from current weather prognosis, we'll be anchoring on the north-east side. No harbour due to shifting sand. So we'll practice using the windlass and take the dinghy ashore.

So you just go full speed ashore and pull up the outboard when you're close, right? :)

A few words on the electric system.

4 x 75 Ah = HOUSE BANK. Close to engine in stern part. Everything goes here (except windlass) including starting the engine. 310 W solar panels.
1 x 105 Ah = WINDLASS BANK. Bow part of boat, close to windlass. Connected the boat alarm here also, but takes virtually 0% power. 50 W solar panel close to bank.

Both banks are charged by engine + shore power via Sterling Alternator to Battery 80 A:
https://sterling-power.com/products/alternator-to-battery-chargers-up-to-130a

Seems to work fine. 25 mm2 from Sterling to Windlass bank means quite long cable run, therefore the 50 W close to Windlass bank, to keep it topped up as the Sterling won't charge 100% due to Voltage drop.

Cabling from windlass battery to windlass according to manual = 25 mm2, here shorter cable runs.

If I am unfortunate and windlass takes most of its Amps from the long cable run (Sterling to Windlass Bank), it is still enough cable diameter to not trip the fuse on that cable. At least that's how I calculated this.

I noticed that the Windlass bank dropped to 12,3 V when using Windlass even with engine running, so windlass seems to be taking Amps from the battery = good. I noticed 35 A going from the Sterling to Windlass bank also.

I think that the existance of the Windlass bank here does reduce the Voltage drop experienced by the Windlass? If there was only a long 25 mm2 cable from Sterling directly to Windlass, it would be more Voltage drop experienced by the Windlass? I hope this is correct.

The water resistant coating, do you have a product link please?
Click to expand...

Seems to be working well in that video, and I notice there's a socket on top for a winch handle. Presumably it also has a socket for an Allen key to let off the clutch so that the anchor/chain can 'freefall' to drop the anchor & allow manual winding to raise it if the electrics fail. Does your windlass control have up/down facility (i.e. reversing solenoid)?
 
rudolph_hart said:
Seems to be working well in that video, and I notice there's a socket on top for a winch handle. Presumably it also has a socket for an Allen key to let off the clutch so that the anchor/chain can 'freefall' to drop the anchor & allow manual winding to raise it if the electrics fail. Does your windlass control have up/down facility (i.e. reversing solenoid)?
Click to expand...

+1

I would have expected the socket to release the clutch to be in the middle of the top plate. Perhaps this model doesn't have a clutch .... although without a way to release the worm drive how could you do manual raising?

Richard
 
My clutch is released by slackening with the winch handle. An Allen key sounds fiddly but I have no experience with other winches, only wenches.
 
Surely you can release the clutch with a winch handle offset to the edge, by turning in one direction (Anticlockwise)), but retrieve, which will tighten the clutch, by turning and continuing to turn (with a great deal of effort) in the other direction - assuming it has manual retrieval.

I cannot see the need for '2' controls (one in the centre and one in the edge). Maybe if I was not sitting beside a glass of shiraz my thinking might be more clear :)

Jonathan
 
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