Windlass switch solenoid

[TiggerToo]

Last weekend I was doing some routine maintenance to Tigger. I noticed that the electric windlass was working in "forward" (down) but not in "reverse" (up). However when switching to reverse there was a distinct clicking noise from down below. This is how I discovered that the switch is actually operated by a solenoid (Lofrans). I dismantled it and checked the contacts: there was no evident corrosion. I jiggled things around a bit and reassembled it - and it now works. Although I am happy for the time being, does anyone have any idea what might have been wrong? Anyone experienced this before? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[TRH]

Seems like you have power to the Solenoid,Try brushes first or it may be a dirty Armature.Wire the motor direct and see if it works up & down.Then go back to the wires & Solenoid it sounds like a bad connection

 

[TiggerToo]

windlass worked fine. Solenoid went up and down. No connection until I swapped over the "switch plates"

 

[crisjones]

I had a similar problem on a Harken solenoid unit for an electric winch (basically the same as a windlass solenoid unit).

I had cleaned the contacts etc and everything appeared to be doing what it should do yet still no slow speed operation.

Close examination finally showed that the contact plate travel distance was not quite enough to make a decent contact - a small copper washer between plate and armature shaft to increase the travel distance solved the problem.

This was also the cause of the pitting / burning to the contacts when I fist took it apart.

 

[William_H]

A windlass motor often has 2 field windings one for each drection. or alternatively less likely the field or armature can be reversed in connection but this involves lots of solenoid connections.
So to test the motor swap the wires from one solenoid to the other and it may or should work but in reverse sense.
If that is so then the fault is in the solenoid.
The solenoid can fail becuase there is not enough power to get positive operation of the contacts. So check the solenoid by making a tempory connection battery to solenoid coil to bypass swithes etc.
As Llamedos suggests the contacts need a very positive pressure. This is usually acheived by the armature pushing the contacts to a point where they contact then further to crush a spring. The crushed spring providing pressure on the contacts. So make sure there is enough spring crush when you dismantle the solenoid.
good luck olewill

 

[meb]

I now have the identical problem with my 27 year old Goiot windlass. The clicking comes from what I think is the `control box` or is it a diode?. This has three terminals for the heavy cables, one of which passes through a small electrical device within a plastic cover. It does not look like a fuse but could be some type of in line breaker but I cannot see a rest button.

All of these electrical bits are located close to the windlass below deck and receive the wires from the remote up/down hand control.
When you refer to the windlass solenoid is that the `control box` or is it within the windlass itself? I have never opened the latter nor do I know how to operate the manual / lever side of the windlass or declutch it.. It seems to be permanently in electric drive.

I emailed Goiot to request advice but so far have not received a reply. I believe I have a Goiot 450 with gypsey and rope drum on opposite sides of the windlass.

Can you offer any further advice on solving the problem/

Cheers

 

[Robin2]

A few diagnostic questions ...

Does the control box also have connections for light wires from the control switch? If so how many, and does the switch normally make the windlass work up and down, or only up?

How many heavy duty cable connections are on the windlass electric motor? If there are 3, is one an earth and are the other two connected to the control box? If this is the wrong assumption, please describe the connections between the motor and whatever it is connected to.

Is it possible the battery is nearly flat? That would mean enough volts to operate the solenoid, but when it connects, the motor would try to draw so much current that the voltage would fall and the solenoid would release (allowing the voltage to rise and maybe allowing the cycle to repeat).

 

[meb]

Yes the solenoid has three light wires on spade connectors, Black, Black and Blue in a row left to right. The centre one is connected to a a heavy duty wire from the battery which goes on to the windlass bypassing the control box. Could this be the power input for the hand controller?The other two light wires also go to the hand controller.

There are three heavy duty terminals on top of the control box. Red, Black and Blue from left to right . The centre terminal receives the second heavy duty wire from the battery and tapped into this is a fourth light wire which leads to the hand controller. Could this be the power output to the hand controller?
Hence there are three light wires to the hand controller and three heavy wires on the solenoid. My solenoid has the name QUICK on it.

The windlass operated up and down and yes there are three heavy duty wires to it one of which is direct from the battery and two coming off the solenoid. The blue and red cables I presume.
When the hand control is pressed to send the windlass in down mode there is a loudish click at the solenoid before the windlass spins. When the up button is pressed the solenoid just clicks loudly and no rotation occurs.

I guess either the up gears are jammed or the up circuit in the windlass has failed. I will start to dismantle the windlass tomorrow unless someone can identify the fault elsewhere.

thanks for all your advice.

 

[pvb]

Control box wiring...

Your control box just contains 2 heavy duty relays. It's possible that one of these is faulty, or it's possible that your windlass is faulty. Before dismantling the windlass, you might check whether it's the box that's faulty by swapping over the motor connections M1 & M2 and seeing whether the windlass then operates up but not down (indicating a control box fault). The box wiring is shown in this diagram...

 

[Robin2]

Your description matches PVB's wiring diagram. It does not seem that anything is jammed. As PVB suggests either the relay or the motor is faulty. Do try PVB's suggestion of swapping the wires on the solenoid to check if that is where the fault lies. If the fault is in the motor it may simply be that one of the brushes is worn out.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Have the same problem myself. A quick inspection suggests that lowing the anchor uses less grunt than raising it and low battery volts meant a stalled motor in "up" but a gravity assisted motor in down.

 

[meb]

Thanks guys.
I switched the up/down M1/M2 wires and the windlass will operate clockwise/anticlockwise whichever has the down supply so the fault must be with the up side of the solenoid[M1]. Having spent much of today upside down in the stern locker replacing the bilge pump I am relieved not to have to repeat the experience in the chain locker coping with corroded bolts!

I will exmine the solenoid at a later date to see if it can be opened and repaired. Presumably they are a marine not an auto product and so far I have not found a local stockist here in Swansea, Wales.

Thanks again for your help and advice.

Mike

 

[ean_p]

Google 'Allbright' contactors and have a word with them........they make what is possibly the best you can buy!