Windermere Speed Limit Change?

Lakesailor

Lakesailor

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What do you think?
The Coalition Government is committed to restoring and defending your freedom – and we're asking you to participate.

Is it likely? I am ambivalent, as long as jetskis are not allowed.

However comment like..
The sail boats that are allowed pose a visual block on all the lakeside landscape and infringe most views when behind one on the lake.
Click to expand...
..hardly do their case much good.

Two other comments refer to a "ban" which never happened, it was a speed limit.

(I put this on Scuttlebutt with no interest shown whatsoever)
 
LS - is it really as simple as it is made to sound ?

Either a clean, natural, quiet environment, or a local economy which is shuffling downhill ?

What in your view is the best way to balance the imperatives ?
 
"Is it likely? I am ambivalent, as long as jetskis are not allowed."

Surely the main objection in the first place was the noise and disruption that fast planing craft were causing to the area (a matter of some dispute by some).
With your eyes shut,the difference twixt PWCs and speed boats must be fairly academic,so if you allowed one back its got be all back.?
 
Lakesailor said:
What do you think?
The Coalition Government is committed to restoring and defending your freedom – and we're asking you to participate.

Is it likely? I am ambivalent, as long as jetskis are not allowed.

However comment like.. ..hardly do their case much good.

Two other comments refer to a "ban" which never happened, it was a speed limit.

(I put this on Scuttlebutt with no interest shown whatsoever)
Click to expand...

I am pleased you posted it here :)
I saw it yesterday and I was interested, I just have to be careful what I post on scuttleburks ;)

There are plenty that thought the speed limit was a bad idea and many believe they have been proven right.

You shouldn't totally dismiss the complaint about sailing boats spoiling the view.

Imagine over looking the lake but there is a marina in the way, with masts blocking the view :eek:
I believe a planing application to have the offending masts stepped only when in use would be successful.
Same in any marina where flats have now been developed.
 
DAKA said:
I am pleased you posted it here :)
I saw it yesterday and I was interested, I just have to be careful what I post on scuttleburks ;)

There are plenty that thought the speed limit was a bad idea and many believe they have been proven right.

You shouldn't totally dismiss the complaint about sailing boats spoiling the view.

Imagine over looking the lake but there is a marina in the way, with masts blocking the view :eek:
I believe a planing application to have the offending masts stepped only when in use would be successful.
Same in any marina where flats have now been developed.
Click to expand...

Would dropping the masts make them a bit quieter in marinas? If so then it is great idea DAKA. :)
 
Noise was certainly an issue with a certain high profile, former mountaineer living next to the Lake, who was hugely influential behind the scenes. The idiot behaviour of a large number of jetskiers, with no evidence of training, knowledge, or consideration for anyone else on the Lake was also another.

What is for certain is that the current situation is a farce. There has not been one single successsful prosecution for speeding and the limit is ignored en masse. No-one I've spoken to, who has been on the Lake before and post the limit, thinks that the Lake is not better in many ways for the limit, yet all argue that zoning would have been a much better solution and the waterski fraternity have been very badly done to and local traders have lost much money. It's a big lake and there is room on it for everybody.

Possibly the main reason why I don't think it will ever be repealed is the idiot behaviour of a small minority of power boat owners, who choose to flout the law in inappropriate parts of the Lake and ruin it for everyone else. I spotted five boats towing wakeboarders well above the speed limit in the South Basin yesterday- not a problem really as four of them kept well away from everyone else and caused no issues at all. One however, was all over the place, passed me fifty yards away at over 20 mph, (not a problem for me as I've a 28' boat and just turned into the wake), but the two anglers in a nearby rowing boat certainly had an issue with it! The groups of kids from the nearby outdoor centre, who were learning to sail, probably weren't too amused either. The four Mastercraft that came through the narrow space between Belle Isle and the Quays at 20+ mph around teatime yesterday didn't make any friends, especially with our neighbour (a local who lives on his 26' foot boat) who had his food on the stove spilled by their wake.

It's very difficult to make any coherent case to remove the limit when the average Joe thinks that all motor boaters are like the few idiots mentioned above. This wasn't a bad day for goons, just an average one and many times it's a lot worse.
 
Very much along the lines of my opinion.
Whatever the regulations they choose it is the application of them that is the important factor. The knob-heads who drive through mooring areas or the 6mph limited areas are the ones who make the issue a real issue.
The LDNPA were very clear that the imposition of the 10 mph limit was not connected to an issue with noise.
To a large extent zoning would be impractical. As there is a right of naviagtion you either ban watercraft or not from certain areas. Pullwyke Bay is a non-motoring area most of the year for nature conservation reasons but sailing, rowing and paddling is allowed.
I'm not sure you can say a certain area is for skiing only. Canoeists, fishermen, swimmers will all use any area they like. There is little education of lake users and many can launch from public areas with no idea about the byelaws.
Better policing of the byelaws would help, whatever speed was allowed, but the Lake Ranger has only 2 boats and there is often only one Ranger on duty. The Wardens are now out of the picture as regards the speeding issue.
The cuts in all local authority spending will ensure the lake becomes more of a Wild West adventure playground as the Ranger cover will diminish to just 9-5 o'clock.
We have lived within 100 yards of the lake for 8 years now and I can assure you that jetskis are a noise nuisance in the same way that model aircraft (waterplanes) are. The noise is a whining, varying pitch as they turn, jump and go round and round, usually harassing other lake users, especially close to the shore.

I think better policing, raised speed limits (30+ft planing boats at 10 knots create enormous swell), requirements for qualification (did I just say that?) for boat drivers (not just the owners) over say 15hp and perhaps more attention to Safe Conduct for all users would be a better situation.
 
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I agree, but think that compulsory education would be both impractical and expensive and not actually do anything to alleviate the problem, as I think the main problem is not ignorance, but a total lack of care and consideration for others. To a degree there is already some zoning, as there are swimming areas clearly marked on the LDA map and as you mentioned, the Bird Sanctuary. Some successful prosecutions would send the right message, but clearly the Rangers would need to have evidence that would stand up in court and this means accurate and incontravertable speed measurements e.g. laser from dry land.

Three years ago I saw very few cases of dangerous speeding, as presumably many were worried about being caught, but now it's something I see every weekend in the Easter to November period. I believe that there is a no-wake byelaw on Windermere in the restricted areas of Lakeside, Waterhead and the Bowness area and this would be easy to police and action against, but it isn't being done. I'm beginning to sound like some old fogey intent on spoiling everybodys' fun here, but having witnessed boats damaged and little kids losing their footing on the pontoon as a result of wakes, I think it's probably only a matter of time before someone is hurt or worse.
 
I don't agree with what the master craft boats did and it always happens in the silly season, school holidays, but as they are breaking the speed limit all the time out on the lake they stupidly don't see it as a problem to break the 6 mph speed limit as well.

If a proper limit applied to the rest of the lake they would probably be more likely to stick to the limits that are needed.

I also think that you should not stop everyone fun more a few idiots in the silly season. Maybe have a limit for the 6 weeks of the school holiday and have the rest of the year to the mainly sensible boat owners.

How busy is the lake and general area at the moment, have not been up for a few years! As I am sure many other used to spend a few £ up there for the previous 10 years.
 
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I dunno the whole gambit here
I dunno the lake
But from memory isn,t it about 10 miles long and about a mile wide?
So
Cannot a bit be dedicated to those that want to ski etc and go 'fast'?

In some respects, my kneck of the woods in North Wales has benefitted from Mobo peeps leaving the Lake and spending their dosh with us!

I would suspect there has been a noticable lack of spending due to mobowers leaving the Lake surely
Anyway
An area for the Sea lice to play and an area for skiing etc
Is that not the answer?
 
Dream on. Once the "environmentalists" get their claws into an issue they never let go. Logic is not in their vocabulary, never mind that truth and facts get in their way.

PS: PWC noise irritation is on another level altogether and can't fairly be compared to speed boats.
 
To answer a couple of the above questions, an official study found that traders' profits fell by 40% after the limit was imposed. The vast majority of water skiers stayed in B & B for a night or two and ate (and drank) out in the town. Day trippers, as the term suggests, tend to come for one day and spend less. It takes approximately 10 ramblers to spend the equivalent of one boater. This problem is made worse by the high cost of rental and rates charges in the area, e.g. expect to pay £25k/year rental for a small cafe and half that much for rates.

Many jobs were tied into fast boats, e.g. Low Wood Centre made 40 instructors redundant when the limit came in. Water activity has changed with more people buying larger boats, suitable to stay on for the weekend or longer and anyone wanting to berth a 28' or larger craft is going to be pushed to find moorings.

Bowness & Windermere are still incredibly popular and even in the Winter, the streets are full of tourists, with most B & B full, or near to full for most of their season. In good weekend weather, it's a very crowded Lake indeed with the Bay area crowded with 'suicide boaters' (local name for the hire boats), rowing boats, dinghies etc etc and even in average weather there are plenty of craft on the water.

I really can't see that the issue will ever be solved sensibly as there are too many people with disproportionate influence. The minute someone waves a green wellie, Authority will kowtow to them and the common sense solutions are unfortunately difficult to enshrine in law. KWA are trying their hardest to get the Byelaw overturned, but their case is not helped by the minority of idiots described earlier. My worry is that the outcome of the process will be more regulation from the Nanny State and more power to the LDA, particularly their power to charge what they like to Lake users. If the LDA get their way, boat users will be charged £100's/annum to have a boat on the Lake.
 
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