Wind over Tide?

[StugeronSteve]

Just been reading the DR/EP debate on t'other forum. Another one that gets my goat is the wind over tide/wind against tide confusion.

I was taught that wind over tide = tidal stream and wind in same direction, ie. westerley tidal set with an easterly blow, producing smooth wave form. However, I have read countless articles in YM, PBO etc, etc, where wind over tide is described as being the opposite, ie. westerly tidal set and westerly wind, resulting in short steep seas (what I have always understood to be wind against tide).

Which is right?.

Steve.



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[jimi]

Hmm .. thought it would be self evident ie wind in opposite direction to tide!

then I thought again .. that's wind against tide!!!

 

[MainlySteam]

Don't know which is correct myself, but a quick Google of "wind over tide" shows everyone thinks it means the wind in opposition to the tide. Wouldn't be the first time common opinon has been wrong though. Interesting one.

John

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[Cornishman]

I have been teaching for 30 years and have always understood that 'wind over tide' is synonymous with 'wind against tide'. I cannot see how it could be anything else.
I have checked through all my text books and interestingly none of them mention it, so my guess is that there is no definition for either phrase.

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[aod]

I to had always thought of wind over tide means wind against tide. You are right however that it certainly raises an interesting question.

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[tillergirl]

I have always been taught that wind over tide is wind in opposition to tide. I think it's one of those quirks of the English language like 'a near miss' which is always regarded as a 'miss which nearly hit' rather than a 'hit which nearly missed'! which is the literal meaning of the words.

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[chas]

Is it anything to do with the fact that a wind is identified by where it is coming from (ie a South Westerly blows from the SW) and a tidal stream is normally identified by the set (ie an easterly stream is setting to the E)? Thus a westerly wind would be in opposition to a westerly tidal stream.

(I was taught that tide went up and down, tidal streams went along)

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[tome]

Strangely enough Cornishman I've always found this illogical, though I agree entirely with your interpretation. For me 'wind over tide' infers wind moving over the tide, both in the same direction.

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[StugeronSteve]

Oh well none the wiser, although popular opinion seems be on the wind against tide side of things. Interestingly all of the books I have researched seem to avoid the problem by reffering to wind with tide and wind against tide. Might be the safest option!

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[arran]

up-tide or up-stream

The wind over tide discussion has now got me in a muddle about the up-tide/up-stream definitions (and of course down-tide/down-stream)!

Is it not true that up-tide is up-stream only on the ebb? It seems some people always refer to up-stream as up-tide...Help I'm getting very confused.

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[vyv_cox]

For what it's worth, I think exactly the same as you do. For me, 'wind over tide' means both flowing in the same direction. Opposite is wind 'against' or possibly 'counter to' tide. For interest, I shall refer to some of my books at home and report back.

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[Aeolus_IV]

I'd have to say that round 'ere "wind over tide" means wind and tide in same direction giving smoother seas, and "wind against tide" mans wind and tide in opposite directions giving a short chop. Well that's how I've always understood it.

Where do I put my 2p?

Regards, Jeff.

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[BlueSkyNick]

I agree - wind over tide means both in the same direction. If it means the opposite, then what expression is used for when they are both the same?

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[burgundyben]

well done, great debate, funnily enough, yesterday wind was west and as I motored past cowes tide was ebbing to the west so they were going in opposite directions....I said to my dad, its choppy cos its wind over tide, I do also say wind against tide sometimes, I reckon if they are goign the same way I say wind with tide....

well, there another 2 pence

<hr width=100% size=1>Sod the Healey - I think I'll buy an E-Type.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Wind over tide and wind against tide are synonyms

Antonym is wind with tide.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[Solitaire]

You are right! Wind over tide is tide in one direction and wind in the other. at first its not obvious, but it is based on the following simple example- suppose a boat is dead in the water with no sails or engine power, the tide itself will move the boat along. In turn this will generate an apparant wind over the deck in the opposite
direction and with the same speed of the tide, this is sometimes known
as the 'Tide wind'.

Like most things it goes back to olden days.


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[NigeCh]

It\'s all nuts

If you take the Menai Strait where the tides flow is a very strange manner you can have a incoming tide that changes direction through 180 degrees in a matter of minutes and it's still flowing. Assume that the wind is in a constant direction during this period then you have wind flowing with the tide and shortly afterwards against the tide .... and at the same same time the wind is always wind over tide.

So therefore 'tide' is irrelevent as it doesn't have any bearing on current.

As I see it the problem is that wind is by tradition 'from' and current is by tradition, is 'to.' This can be resolved quite easily by 'Wind with current' or 'Wind against current.'

The expression 'Wind over tide' is always true as the wind is always above the sea ... but tide can do what it wants and doesn't necessarily infer what the current is doing.

Strikes me that we are using an expression that devolves from somewhere that is totally meaningless.



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[Gunfleet]

and another thing

What do you do, go up or down the Wallet? I am led to believe that travelling NE up the Wallet is down, if you see what I mean. Why so I don't know, except perhaps common sense says go down with the tide.

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[TheBoatman]

Re: It\'s all nuts

Nige
Pass me that axe and lets try splitting this atom?
I think you're gonig a bit deep here. I think we should all remember that most of these "nautical" terms were concieved many,many years ago when your basic deckhands were somewhat lacking in IQ (or learning). I think it would be fair to assume that if you took all the hands IQ's and added them together and multiplied by 10 you still wouldn't reach double figures. To them it was what they saw i.e. wind going one way, tide (tidal stream) going the other that produced a certain wave form. Having said that, whilst they may not be able to read or write, I bet you they were b****y good sailors?

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[Neraida]

Re: and another thing

Wind over tide = wind going against the tide instead of wind going with the tide????

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