Winch Sizes are they all the same?

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brianbaldwin

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Is an Antal 16 winch the same as a Lewmar 16 and the same as a Barton 16 winch? What do the numbers mean and is their a standard so you can easily compare price and performance? A quick look at Lewmars calculator predicts that for my 40' Ketch genoa sheets, I wuld need Lewmar 54's at over £1000 each. This seems a bit overkill or have I got it completely wrong? /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
The number describing winch size is their multiplier of the force you apply to the end of the standard winch-handle. If you apply 40kg to the handle on a Lewmar 16 or Antal 16 they will apply 16 x 40, ie 640kg to the rope coming to it. A typical 32-foot yacht has (Lewmar?) 40's as sheet winches. Lewmar 54's might be considered rather light for your boat. And at price of £1000 you are probably looking at a bargain; unless they are so old and used as to be almost shot! Welcome to the real world of sailing costs!
 
Brilliant, I always wondered how they were sized. I should have typed £1000++ each! I have'nt yet found the hole in the boat where the money goes, is it the one made by the golden rivet?! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I've just seen that your yacht is a Colvic ketch, so the genoa is not all that large, and Lewmar 54 are probably about right! Good luck!
 
I have Lewmar 44's twin speed on a 34' and they seem just about right although I do have a longer winch handle than standard for use in "difficult situations". 54's could be OK for your boat - certainly nothing smaller though.

If you are buying new winches I would consider self tailers rather than standard ones. (More than £1000 each /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif but you only buy new winches once - or do you?)
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Thanks for the advice guys, now the tricky bit - who is the best supplier in the UK and is it worth considering France or USA mail order and now I know the size, which is the best manufacturer - Antal, Burton, Harken Lewmar and the rest?!! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
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I do have a longer winch handle than standard for use in "difficult situations".


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Cliff,

Quite interested in your longer winch handles.

I have always thought this was a good idea and even posted on this forum some time ago to ask if anyone knew of a company who manufactured them.

But I drew a blank.

What length are your handles? and are they 'home 'made?

Thanks

Iain
 
Both the long and "standard" handles are marked Lewmar. The short (standard) ones are lockable but the long ones are not.
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From what you are saying Cliff I imagine that your 'normal' one is an 8" and the 'long' one is a 10".

I have several 8" and 10" handles but was looking for a 12" handle.

This would effectively increase the ratio of my 40 winches by 10% to 48 ( this is when compared with the 10" handle which is normally used to calculate the ratio of winches)

I don't know how the winch would stand up to using a handle this length.

Cheers

Iain
 
Re handles: long winch handles are not a lot of use if turning them is limited by dodgers or guardrail wires, which is often the case: you then have to accept skinned knuckles or removing and replacing the handle every 3/4 turn.
Wearing a harness, there is nothing to beat crouching over the winch, shoulders above it, and full-circle winding with both hands. A well-designed boat with sheet winches on the coaming allows you to have one foot on the seat, the other out on the toe-rail. It is much the easiest and least back-wrenching technique.
I have had the misfortune to sail boats where that is impossible: their designers should be shot!
 
Tillip: To-and-fro on a two-speed winch is no help when the sheet-tension has reached the level where the load on the handle is up at the crew's operating limit in high gear, and he/she needs to be able to continue in low gear only. Unless the handle can be taken through full revolutions, the low-gear function is limited to one shot of less than 360 degrees. Hardly worth installing two-speed winches for that!
 
Well, strangely enough, I have rachet winch handle that works just like the rachet handle on a socket set, wwould that help?
 
Our genoa on a 40 foot cruising boat is over 500 sqft - the rig was professionally designed for the boat, heavy sailing conditions and light crew (wife and myself, well past middle age and me 6 ft, 72kg so no grinder gorilla) and genoa sheet winches are 48ST's. I would not like to go smaller, but they cope no problem - really gets down to how easy you want it to be (real easy is electric /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).

A trade off is that although the high speed reduction of the 54 and a smaller winch (say the 48) are not greatly different (and power ratio is virtually the same between 48 and 54 on high speed), but on low speed there is a considerable difference. That means once you get down to the low speed you have the trade off of more winding for the same sheet recovery with a bigger winch against harder work and faster sheet recovery for a smaller - we find that with 500 sq.ft genoa one is down to low speed pretty quickly (and same would occur for the next few winch sizes up due to not great difference in gearing on high) and ourselves prefer the harder wind but faster sheet recovery.

Am not suggesting a 48 at all, but rather as an example that one is best to get advice from a good rig designer (probably free if they supply the winches) on what your needs are taking into account your sailing practices, crewing and sail sizes rather than the very rough direction the Lewmar internet site selector gives. Might prove a saving on winch cost as well.

John
 
Agree with general designation on winch sizing and numbering, however most winches now are muliti-speed and the number usually applies to the maximum power, different manaufactures have different ratios between gears and this can effect the choice of a winch. Also all winches are not constructed the same, the bearing and gears take a lot of stick so look carefully at the design. also check how easy it is to dismantle the unit for cleaning and servicing, winch servicing extends the life of the winch by years and years
 
You have a solution, as long as the ratchet mechanism is robust enough for the duty.
If I had to rely on it, I would be sure to carry a spare. It is not just a problem of making it easier for the crew, or their strength limit. In hard weather, winding in a small headsail can take just as much effort as a large genoa, and flattening into its proper shape is important: an over-full sail results in too much heel and too little drive, and can be the difference between sailing safely off a lee shore or being in dire trouble.
In my book, the right winches and a cockpit design to utilise their full capability are just as important as the right engine and propeller.
 
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