will this flotation suit help save my life?

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beany_bot

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Hi all,

I have a question about cold water immersion and suits designed to protect you.

I own one of these. http://www.gaelforcemarine.co.uk/37287/Mullion-Aquafloat-Suit.html

I boat primarily on Loch Lomond. I have a 17ft bowrider speedboat and like to wakeboard, potter about, and generally enjoy the water.
However this year, my friend and I want to continue enjoying the Loch right through winter.
My question is this, I don't really know what that suit does other than it offers 50N bouyancy and is lovely and warm. It got a rainproof outer and a sort of quilted inner, it has neoprene wrist seals but these are pretty loose and wouldn’t keep water out I don’t think. it’s very pleasant to wear when its horrible outside. Like I said, it’s comfortable and warm on the boat. However, is it suitable protection for the Loch in winter?

I have a proper drysuit that I wear for when I am in the water (wakeboarding or windsurfing) and this obviously keeps me warm and dry, even when the water is 2 or 3 degree above freezing. However, I don’t really fancy wearing my full drysuit just to go for a motor about if can be avoided.
Alas, If I am not planning to go in the water and just want to go for a potter about, will that Mullion suit protect me if I get thrown into the water and its 2 or 3 degrees? I really have no idea what sort of protection they offer from cold water immersion. They say they offer thermal protection, but realistically how much? Worst case scenario I am thrown from the boat and the water is 2 degrees, I have to swim a mile to dry land. Anyone got any experience of these type of suits?

(P.S. of course I will also be wearing a proper 150n auto lifejacket)

Thanks,
 
sarabande said:
perhaps consider seafishing thermally insulted suits ? They are astonishingly warm and some have built in flotation to EN393

http://www.fishingmegastore.com/flotation-suits_756.html

They do give you a degree of mobility which heavy offshore stuff doesn't.
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Hi, the mobility isn't really an issue. I find my suit perfectly mobile, very warm and comfortable. No real point buying another when I have one already. Its wether it (or flotation suits in general) offer sufficient thermal protection when falling in 2 degree water? I just have no ideal. All the websites claim they offer "thermal protection" but give no indication as to what or how much.

Like I said, I can always wear my drysuit if need be and I know I would be fine if I entered the water, but I would rather wear he flotation suit if it is safe to do so.
 
It depends on how long you intend to be in the water! Also how fat you are, how much splashing about you do, how rough it is, etc. But as a guess, if you just stay still in the HELP position, probably over an hour.

One warning - my Fladen flotation suit tries to roll me onto my tummy and I'm not sure of the effect when used with a LJ.
 
The cold water will flood the suit as soon as you hit the water, I pulled the local ferry crew out of the water when there tender overturned in a storm, both were wearing Fladen suits and life jackets, they were struggling to swim in the bulky suits and freezing cold by the time I got to them, they had been in the water no longer than 10 minutes. I have one but consider it more as weather protection than a life aid.
 
Loch Linnhe said:
The cold water will flood the suit as soon as you hit the water, I pulled the local ferry crew out of the water when there tender overturned in a storm, both were wearing Fladen suits and life jackets, they were struggling to swim in the bulky suits and freezing cold by the time I got to them, they had been in the water no longer than 10 minutes. I have one but consider it more as weather protection than a life aid.
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Oh dear thats a worry.

Can I ask:

Did they have / need treatment for hypothermia?
What temperature was the water?
 
Hi Beany,

They will be rated as a Class D (ISO 15027-1) Thermal Protection suit - Standb y, official statistics table on the way.... ;)

Edit : Damnit, I can't find the table I used to have handily bookmarked....keep standing by.

Fladen.jpg

(Didn't find the statistics table, but located Fladen's blurb about the ISO 15027-1 standard and their performance in comparison)
 
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No they did not need treatment for Hypothermia, I can't tell you the water temp but it does not change that much in the sea from summer to winter, the air temp is the killer and it was very cold, luckily we live right next to where this happened, so got them warm and dry quickly. Loch lomond will be far colder, and help could be some time getting to you so cut no corners stick with the drysuit.
 
Loch Linnhe said:
No they did not need treatment for Hypothermia, I can't tell you the water temp but it does not change that much in the sea from summer to winter, the air temp is the killer and it was very cold, luckily we live right next to where this happened, so got them warm and dry quickly. Loch lomond will be far colder, and help could be some time getting to you so cut no corners stick with the drysuit.
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thanks, I think you are right.
 
Whatever you wear,if you use a kill cord you will reduce the distance you have to swim to get to safety if you get thrown out of your boat.A kill cord will also prevent you from being run down by your boat while you are in the water.If it was me,I would experiment in a safe spot close to shore and with a buddy nearby to ensure I could get back aboard unaided.
Cheers
 
caiman said:
Whatever you wear,if you use a kill cord you will reduce the distance you have to swim to get to safety if you get thrown out of your boat.A kill cord will also prevent you from being run down by your boat while you are in the water.If it was me,I would experiment in a safe spot close to shore and with a buddy nearby to ensure I could get back aboard unaided.
Cheers
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Of course. Thats a given. :)
 
Your asking how long is a piece of string. Yes they will give you better insulation than a shirt or normal oilskin but they are not designed as immersion suits. If you go in the water the clock is ticking. If memory serves me right you lose heat something like 24 x faster in water than air. You only need to lose a few degrees of core temperature to feel the effects of Hypothermia. In winter in a loch in Scotland it may give you ten minutes instead of five depending on your body type etc. basically don't go out alone and make sure that you don't all fall out the boat at once so as someone is always there to pull you out. Incidentally I don't think the situation would be that much different in summer in deep water lochs? If it worries you then wear your dry suit. There are techniques to retain some heat in the water which they teach you during basic sea survival courses. Glasgow College (or whatever its called now? ex Glasgow College of Nautical Studies) do the courses.
 
cryan said:
make sure that you don't all fall out the boat at once so as someone is always there to pull you out. Incidentally I don't think the situation would be that much different in summer in deep water lochs?
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I'm summer the loch surface waters was 24degrees! We were all in in just shorts all day long.

As for not all falling in at once. I'm not really sure what to do with that information. Of course I will try to not all fall in at once but you simply never know. Sadly this exact scenario happened to a family I know in March 2005. The hydraulic steering system on their rib failed and two people were ejected into the water. They were wearing normal clothes and tragically both died from the cold within about 2 minutes. They were not wearing life jackets which would have made them able to have been found and possibly revived. But still. You never know what might happen.
 
beany_bot said:
I'm summer the loch surface waters was 24degrees! We were all in in just shorts all day long.

As for not all falling in at once. I'm not really sure what to do with that information. Of course I will try to not all fall in at once but you simply never know. Sadly this exact scenario happened to a family I know in March 2005. The hydraulic steering system on their rib failed and two people were ejected into the water. They were wearing normal clothes and tragically both died from the cold within about 2 minutes. They were not wearing life jackets which would have made them able to have been found and possibly revived. But still. You never know what might happen.
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Obviously I was talking tongue in cheek about not all falling in together. I don't know about Loch Lomond but I remember as a boy swimming at Loch Lubnaig where at the beach it was like a bath but at the drop off the teperature dropped as sharp as the bottom did.
Basically though if your skin is in contact with water then you don't have much time in the winter.
 
I suppose, at the end of the day Beany, to answer the direct question that the thread asks : "Will this flotation suit help save my life?" - Then yes, it will *help*, it'll do a better job than not wearing it.

Class D Thermal flotation suits give an estimated survival time of 1hr in temperatures less than 5 degrees c, 1.5hrs in 5-10 degrees c. That's survival times though, so you are still likely to suffer the effects from cold water shock, etc even if wearing the suit in cold waters.

I wear a Fladen 2-piece, I've submerged myself in Loch Ness for kayak marshalling a number of times in early September temperatures whilst wearing it - So from a practical experience I would report that : The first time, I did suffer cold shock as the water floods in, and as an earlier poster mentions, it does tend to lift you up onto your stomach flat, pushing your face into the water unless you flip over onto your back, which isn't the most pleasant feeling - if remaining subermeged there does seem to be a wetsuit effect which lessens the "bite" of the cold and i'd certainly not have been able to function properly without wearing it....(Incidentally, the guy in the bearsuit with a drysuit over it was quite happily submerged for hours with none of my problems! ;))
 
beany_bot said:
Oh dear thats a worry.

Can I ask:

Did they have / need treatment for hypothermia?
What temperature was the water?
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I suggest you speak to Mullion and find out more about these suites. They were developed for the North sea many years ago to be used by workers on oil rig lower decks who may easily fall into the sea. They were a bit more cumbersome than a boiler suit but not much more than an insulated boiler suit.

They have means of securing the wrists and ankles and possibly other means of reducing the volume of trapped water. When correctly used they do flood with a limited amount of water however this s supposed to remain trapped and NOT wash through.

They were originally called Atlantic Mullion but there seem now to be many derivatives and I not the workers on some of the marine aspects of the new Forth Crossing.....(Don t call it a bridge :) ) are wearing them. I suspect theirs cost about twice the price you are looking at.


http://www.mullion-pfd.com/contact/distributors
 
Don't speculate, get togged up and go and wade in (with a shore watch and life line to you). Then you will know for sure how warm (cold) it is, how long you might stand it and how mobile you are.
PS remove co2 cylinder from LJ and mouth inflate.
 
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