will the halyard eye splice take my weight?

[Burnham Bob]

A fellow forumite very kindly let me have a look at the Topclimber as I need to go up my mast. I think I'm in the market for one as the 'fully strapped in' construction appeals to me compared to the alternatives.

However, to get as high as possible, he suggested that I tie on with bowlines and keep them short as the top ascender stops when it meets the bowlines.

I said I was intending to tie the Topclimber line to the eye splice on the main halyard with a bowline. He wasn't sure that was a good idea and suggested a bowline in the halyard to create a loop and then another bowline on the Topclimber line to attach it to the halyard. He said he wouldn't trust the eye splice even though the thimble and splice was put in the halyard by a professional rigger. I am going to use the spinnaker halyard as a 'belt and braces' safety line and know I can't trust the snap shackle so that will be tied on to the harness with a bowline. But it never occurred to me that the eye splice would be suspect as i winch the sail up as tight as possible when I need to flatten it.

What does the forum think?

 

[Lakesailor]

Does your weight exceed the tension you put in the main halyard when tensioning the mainsail luff. Very much doubt it. I'd trust a splice more than a knot.
They reckon a knot halves the strength in a rope. From hauling trees I know the rope always busts at the knot.

 

[Cloven]

I use a similar climbing ladder and connect the ring at the top of it to the main halyard with the snap shackle. I then use a separate short rope tied to the main halyard just above the snap shackle and then onto the ring at the top of the mast climbing ladder. This way, neither the shackle nor the eye splice will take my full weight should the worst happen.

The ladder can then be pulled up just short of the eye splice

Hope this helps

 

[ex-Gladys]

Insufficient info... What's your halyard? 3 strand? braid on braid? size (10mm?)? I'd be more prepared to trust my weight to a 4-5 tuck eye splice in 3 strand than a braid on braid splice. It's true that the bowline is one of the worst knots for reducing rope strength (c. 50% as said before)

I was in BYH next to someone going aloft in a bosun's chair a few weeks back, and they used two halyards (one as a safety line) AND anormal deck type safety line when they got to working height... so Winch up on one halyard a bit, take slack out of safety line... then when you get to working height use the safety line reeved to give minimum drop. Seemed a sensible approach to me

 

[Graham_Wright]

Please come and talk to me at SBS and I'll make some suggestions re safety!

Selling the MastaClimba has made us recipients of many horror stories. It is a hell of a long way down and you only fall once.

 

[Blue5]

I have a topclimber and use two bowlines, I manage to keep them tight enough to reach the aerial and tricolour OK.

Always have a secondary safety line and use climbing carabiners, would not trust a snap shackle.

 

[wiggy]

Surely you won't know if the eye splice is stronge enough until it fails. Who made the splice and how old is it?

 

[Ariadne]

I've never understood this 'I don't trust a splice/shackle' approach? I've been at sea most of my life and I've never seen a splice or a shackle undo itself (unless not been done up correctly), on the other hand I've seen plenty of bends & hitches come undone. As pointed out before most ropes snap at the knot, it is the weakest point; again I've never seen a rope part on/at/in the splice - happy to be corrected though.

An 6mm, 8mm or 10mm shackle/snap shackle is more than strong enough to take the weight of your average sailor - you use them on your anchor chains, hoist sails, recover you from the sea in the case of an MOB, etc, etc, and loads there are a lot higher, it'll take your weight up a mast. I'm not sure about using snap shackles but an ordinary U, D or the key type shackle shouldn't come undone on their own or under load, and a safety line is a must.

 

[BruceDanforth]

How big is the boat? How old is the rig? When was it last down for maintenance/inspection? The whole lot might come crashing down with you tied onto a perfectly good knot.

Some poor sod being dangled into a wrestling ring a few years ago fell quite a big height when a snap shackle accidentally opened....

 

[ghostlymoron]

Try it at deck level first. Give it a good bounce and if it holds it should be Ok. If it doesn't, you haven't far to fall.

 

[Pye_End]

I use a bowline, but tie or shackle the tail back onto whatever I am hoisting (chair/ladder), that way it cannot come undone. The weakest point is then the knot. A figure of eight is probably better for strength. Personally I wouldn't use a splice or shackle, although in theory they should be fine.

Climbers make sure that they stay safe, so using their preferances is a good place to start.

 

[KellysEye]

I use a bowline, but tie or shackle the tail back onto whatever I am hoisting (chair/ladder), that way it cannot come undone. The weakest point is then the knot. A figure of eight is probably better for strength. Personally I wouldn't use a splice or shackle, although in theory they should be fine.

I agree but do something slightly different. I put the shacckle on the halyard above the bowline not the seat. Either way is good.

 

[nigelmercier]

You are not thinking of going up the mast on a single line are you?

 

[ex-Gladys]

I've never understood this 'I don't trust a splice/shackle' approach? I've been at sea most of my life and I've never seen a splice or a shackle undo itself (unless not been done up correctly), on the other hand I've seen plenty of bends & hitches come undone. As pointed out before most ropes snap at the knot, it is the weakest point; again I've never seen a rope part on/at/in the splice - happy to be corrected though.

An 6mm, 8mm or 10mm shackle/snap shackle is more than strong enough to take the weight of your average sailor - you use them on your anchor chains, hoist sails, recover you from the sea in the case of an MOB, etc, etc, and loads there are a lot higher, it'll take your weight up a mast. I'm not sure about using snap shackles but an ordinary U, D or the key type shackle shouldn't come undone on their own or under load, and a safety line is a must.

I had a new strop for the genny on the furler, and undid the chackle at the bottom end, and half the pin stayed in... I've had a number of D shackles like that where there has been a structural failure - probably 4 in last ten years

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Try it a deck level first. Give it a good bounce and if it holds it should be Ok. If it doesn't, you haven't far to fall.

Good idea, unless your bounce stresses it to the point just before it breaks.

 

[mikemanor]

I don't climb on bowlines any more.

The "figure of eight threaded through" is safer and is the only knot used by climbers these days. I teach this on Comp Crew/Day Skipper for going up the mast. (With 2 lines as already mentioned)

http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/F8Knots.htm

 

[lw395]

Unless it's a small boat, the splice should be plenty strong enough.
I always use two lines.
If I use any shackles, particularly snap shackles I tape them to avoid them catching on something and releasing.

I've tested one of my own splices to about 500lb in 4mm vectran if that's any help?
A decent braided rope splice is not going to be an issue in 10mm or bigger rope.

Ropes that have been in the sun a while often don't knot well.

 

[2Tizwoz]

will the halyard eye splice take my weight?

You're obviously rather concerned.

Just what is your weight exactly?

 

[Bobobolinsky]

I don't climb on bowlines any more.

The "figure of eight threaded through" is safer and is the only knot used by climbers these days. I teach this on Comp Crew/Day Skipper for going up the mast. (With 2 lines as already mentioned)

http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/F8Knots.htm

Figure of nine is commonly used by climbers. It is easier to undo than a figure of eight and does not place as much crushing force on the main line

 

[Ruffles]

I don't climb on bowlines any more.

The "figure of eight threaded through" is safer and is the only knot used by climbers these days. I teach this on Comp Crew/Day Skipper for going up the mast. (With 2 lines as already mentioned)

http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/F8Knots.htm

Can be problematic on snow/ice - tends to freeze solid. I use a bowline for winter climbing and figure eight for rock.