WiFi up the mast

[jonjo]

In a recent thread, some people recommended hooking up to a marina WiFi network via a WiFi router/extender hauled up the mast, thus delivering a wireless network connection straight down to the nav table.

I would like to try this but I cannot find a router that will run off 12v. Could someone recommend a model please?

 

[BlueChip]

Best solution is the Airbridges Smartbridge indoor. http://www.smartbridges.com/products/ab.asp
This is a powered ethernet device and you can run the 12V up the network cable
You can buy them from Square Mile, I imported mine directly from the manufacturer
I find it works well on the end of the boat hook at about boom level

 

[kingfisher]

My SMC 2804 at home runs on 9V, 1 A. if you can't step it down from 12v, It will probably run on a 9V block battery.

 

[steve28]

not at 1 amp it wont

 

[mithril]

If you are simply wanting WiFi on your boat then purchase a WiFi network adaptor ( or WiFi modem or WiFi radio-modem etc) which connects to your PC USB port. Then you can extend the radio-modem's position by USB extension cables. No additional power supply is needed, the PC USB port supplies the power.

 

[trouville]

I havent found a way to connect any air RX antena to my laptop at all except this

http://c0rtex.com/~will/antenna/

or this http://wirelessgardenstore.com/default.aspx They have added an adapter good idea! saves useing the "hammer" on an adapter without the adapter!!!

 

[jonjo]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are simply wanting WiFi on your boat then purchase a WiFi network adaptor

[/ QUOTE ]
My laptop has WiFi and this works around the home and office but at my marina berth a connection is almost impossible down below. In the cockpit I can get a decent signal holding the laptop at about 5 ft above the waterline.

My plan is to hook the WiFi relay box on the backstay about 9ft above water level and take power from a cockpit 12v socket.

 

[MedMan]

As an alternative this WiFi card can be used with an external antenna. You can buy the card here but, perversely, not the external aerial!

 

[TrueBlue]

Re: WiFi up the mast - Original Post

After scratching around a bit, I finally found a solution, in fact just doing a check on my router, I find it has a 12V power supply, so in the strictest terms of answering your question directly. Just for completeness it's a Billion 7402WA from Solwise. Problem Solved?

But it ain't 'cos a router is to connect two networks together via cables through an ISP. You need a Wireless Access Point. Terminology (is confusing) but you must get it correct else you'll end up with the wrong kit. These WAPs usually run off 5V.

Big Problem: not many 12V to 5V power supplies available.

Found one Good old CPC Search on pw01322

So your solution becomes two-fold:-
A power supply PW01322 from the above
A WAP-011A from Solwise

This time - Sorted.


Now the gratuitous bits,

<font color="blue">Part, the First </font> ,

(1) In the Irish tradition "if you are going that way, I wouldn't be starting from here". You'd be much better advised to use an inverter to run your laptop plus any extra kit. The '011A comes with a very nice switch mode power supply (more efficient), but the 12/5V "dropper" approaches the cost of a small inverter which can be used to run other devices of which you have not yet thought, and indeed may even be more power efficient than your requested route.

Your choice

(2) If choosing the 12/5V route I'd be inclined to stick the WAP and its power supply up the mast in a waterproof(ed)box in order to reduce any power loss. You'll see that the converter runs from 10-36V, so if there is a drop it will compensate for it.

(3) I suggest the 011A because it is good value, will act as Client, Access Point, Repeater, Bridge. If your needs change you can reconfigure the unit to do whatever. It also has a crap name BUT works - I've tested it as an AP and Repeater. Oh, yes you can screw on a variety of external aerials - I'd use an onmidirectional one for starters.

(4) Once you've configured it as a Repeater you can shove it up the mast with only its power supply needed.
If you haven't got a PCMCIA card (AP client) - and you don't need one - then you can run a length of Ethernet cable up the mast and connect it directly to your laptop - which I assume for this case has an ethernet socket. Less complicated.
BTW you have to configure the unit via ethernet anyway (--- I think----)

<font color="blue">Part, the second </font>

For those who have kindly made suggestions, but some of which are out of context / inappropriate
<ul type="square">[*]USB is a method for connecting peripherals, printers cameras and the like. It is NOT a network connection.
Cable length is limited to 5 metres and may well be erratic at that length.
[*] USB wireless bits are more expensive, less flexible, less sensitive as a dedicated unit.
[*] There is no point in sticking an aerial on a length of coax; the transmission losses are too high
[*] Only USB 1 will provide a 5V power supply in any "quantity". USB 2 won't do the job (Tested)
[*] Solwise do excellent kit at realistic prices and supply all the Wireless bits from one place. Get leads and cables from Screwfix, and power bits from CPC.
[/list]

 

[trouville]

Re: WiFi up the mast - Original Post

Have i got it as well??
Im on my boat the capitanerie is 200m away and has a wi-fi router set up.

With my laptop or PDA i can sit on a bench 60m away and accsses the internet.I then walk back to my boat at 170m the signal is to weak and the conecction lost.This is the way it alwasy is.

Now!! i call for an " A WAP-011A from Solwise " and ask for a "011A accsses point" they send it.

I put it on my aft cabin roof, give it power then take a cable from it to my ieeee plug (the one i use for broadband) and "hay presto im online" OR as its an accsses point use its wi-fi output for one PC??? (accsses points can run one wi-fi PC routers lots!??)

Is that how it will work?? Just on the routers/accsses points ive seen in shops they all need a cable INPUT from the IPS then put OUT, by wi-fi or direct connection a signal??

And on another theam, i decided not to cook and heat with petrol burners.I tried a small one it used more fule than was said,and burnt me!!For the second time.

Now Ive got a single burner parafin stove just to see if it really is imposiable to live with,? Other wise i have an alcohol stove,That is if i really cant find space for a gas bottel.

Petrol perhaps wasent my best idea! But it did seem like a good one at the time!

 

[TrueBlue]

Re: WiFi up the mast - Original Post

Slow down, slow down - what you say is correct in parts; but the parts are not necessarily joined up.

Let's see if I can understand you.
[ QUOTE ]

With my laptop or PDA i can sit on a bench 60m away and accsses the internet.I then walk back to my boat at 170m the signal is to weak and the conecction lost.This is the way it alwasy is.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I get that. I assume you connect to the Capitainerie using a WiFi plug in "PCMCIA" card (or inbuilt card)or "Bluetooth" in you PDA. On the bench you are near the Capitanerie's Wireless Router and so you get a good signal.
Fine.
On your bench you are not only near the router but also in direct line of sight with not too many boat masts between you and it. So you get a good signal for two reasons; nearness and no obstructions.

As you walk to your boat not only are you going far to far away (100m: is the best that I have achieved), but I suspect that there is a lot of aluminium (masts) between you and the router. That will destroy the signal.


Result: no connection

Before I go any further, a Wireless Router does many things, it connects a local ethernet network ("LAN") to a wide area network ("WAN"). That's the Router bit. The Wireless bit is an Access Point which allows lucky folks sitting in comfort, in the sun, to access the Web. In a long winded way what I'm trying to say is that the two functions are separate, and can be joined together in one box or exist as separate items of equipment. Sometimes I get the feeling that folks thing the two are the same.


[ QUOTE ]

Now!! i call for an " A WAP-011A from Solwise " and ask for a "011A accsses point" they send it.

(1)I put it on my aft cabin roof, give it power then take a cable from it to my (2)ieeee plug (the one i use for broadband) and "hay presto im online" OR (3)as its an accsses point use its wi-fi output for one PC??? (4)(accsses points can run one wi-fi PC routers lots!??)


[/ QUOTE ]

Lots of points here.


(1). Check how much Solwise want for carriage to France - possibly avoid courier and persuade them to send it Royal Mail. I don't know whether "signed for" service is available across La Manche. It may be cheaper to find a French source.

(2) Cabin roof is probably not high enough, you may have to go higher to get a clear signal.

(3). Now I'm getting slightly confused "IEEE" covers a multitude of sins; do you mean this:- "RJ45 (Ethernet) 10 Base-T Port". You failed to mention when you use this, I suspect that you can plug in to somebody's local network, somewhere, (??Capitanerie??) which then gets you onto the Web.
If that is so then you are correct, you can connect your laptop to your Access Point using an "RJ45 cable". this is the default mode for the WAP011A.
Yes, in this mode it is (supposed) to be for your use only. Your own PC or own network if you had one is connected as a "Client" withe the Capitanerie being the "Server".

(4). Now you may be getting incredibly clever here - in which case I'll direct all future questions to you (haha). OR it could be that you understand the subject completely and are testing my subject knowledge (either way I'm impressed).
If you set up the AP as a Repeater, then the device will pick up the signal from the Capitanerie and forward it to anyone nearby who is in a position to access the facilities (If it is an open network, that means anyone, if not you'll have to replicate the authorisation codes etc).
That means YOU and yachts nearby (if YOU so decide).
So you could put an AP up your mast, another boat further away can do the same and so on, bouncing the signal from one to another.

I don't know if you had that in mind - but it presents intriguing possibilities to extend the range.

N.B. The point which eludes me at the moment (because I haven't tested it) is whether you can define your AP as a Repeater - to share the signal "pro bono publico" AND trap a part of it for your use using the RG45 connection. Interesting.


[ QUOTE ]

Is that how it will work?? Just on the routers/accsses points ive seen in shops they all need a cable INPUT from the IPS then put OUT, by wi-fi or direct connection a signal??


[/ QUOTE ]
I hope I've cleared up this last point by being a bit pedantic in my explanations. What you have seen in the shops is a commonly known (in the UK anyway) as a "Wireless Router".

What I'm proposing to you is the Access Point portion which can be configured to do ONE of the functions of an AP depending on what you need.

I'm quite exhausted and mindful that I may have lost you in the depths of my peregrinations (come back for translations of some of the more terms / idioms), but it has been "fun" in trying to put over some of the concepts which I am still learning.

I have a large (empty) Scotch glass here, and listening to some sublime Victoria (Vittoria) a capella music here on BBC Radio 3; so I'm well relaxed and joyful - else I wouldn't have started.

God's in His Heaven and all's right with the world (well not actually) but you get my drift.

I do hope you now understand the complexity, otherwise the last hour has been wasted.

 

[trouville]

Re: WiFi up the mast - Original Post

Yes and no!

Can i offer you another glass? (just pour myself a glass of 1974 corbéres-red)

Firstly. Both my laptop and my "dell" PDA have bluetooth and wi-fi.

At the moment i use ONLY the wi-fi connection.Blue tooth is switched off to save power. No cable conection at all havent used a cable for years.

Now the question is: The access point has one antenna only! One input for the cabel from the IPS. Plus 3/4 ports to conect PC via cable connection.

Can the antenna input be switched to receive the input, rather than transmit the input from the cabel connection??? Solway say this in their discription:

nteroperable with IEEE 802.11b (DSSS) 2.4GHz-Compliant Equipment
Four modes: AP/AP Client/Bridging/Repeater functions
64 bit or 128 bit Wired Equivalent Privacy (WEP) Encryption

Bridging would seem to be the needed function.? I do think solway could clarify?

Its the same with D-Link you have to "buy and try"! Untill a few of us have bought and are useing the system it will remain unclear!!



Rather like my other simple question, "what do i need to disply "Lat/Long" on my PDA pointing out that i dont want charts just a simple Lat/Long as a back up,save me buying a second GPS i cant aford and would never use!! NO ONE can answer!! the ICOM rep that is a member hear advised my to spen £600 on a full nav system!!! Just tonight i was told to get a GPS mouse??? for a PDA??--they dont have an USB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I really thing we have to ask the distributor for clarification. This will work very well http://wirelessgardenstore.com/default.aspx and find open wi-fi but only if the pontoon dosent move!!!

We are the first to be looking at this question and bridges coming on the market are new!! I spent ages trying to find a meens to get a wi-fi conection at a distence of more than 100m!

So far the best solution was a "yaggi" anttena with 26 dbs gain (or more i cant remember)Or that link which offers an anntena and pcmi card with the connecter.

 

[kingfisher]

9V x 1A = 9 Watt at max output. So ok, the battery wont last 6 hours, but it'll still run on the battery? I'm not talking about a small 9V block, but the large black ones, found in road works signalling lights.

 

[TrueBlue]

Re: WiFi up the mast - Continuing saga

Oh dear we're getting more complicated!

[ QUOTE ]
Can i offer you another glass? (just pour myself a glass of 1974 corbéres-red)

[/ QUOTE ] Yes, please - a virtual santé to you!


[ QUOTE ]
Now the question is: The access point has one antenna only! One input for the cabel from the IPS. Plus 3/4 ports to conect PC via cable connection.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you are describing is a Wireless Router. It acts as an AP <u>Server</u> for its wireless <u>clients</u>, connects to an ISP via its WAN port and the remaining 3/4 ports provide an mini hub so that a small user can attach 3-4 PCs to it as a LAN. AFAIK the wireless part is an AP server ONLY - no bridging etc

The WAP011A on the other hand connects only to a LAN, OR to a dedicated PC (there is a small switch on the back to allow a direct connection to a single PC if required). There is no WAN or ISP connection. Some users have a router without wireless capability and a separate AP for the wireless bit.

It's all confusing because the sockets (RJ45) are the same for a WAN as a LAN

The single antenna is not an issue because in Repeater mode the device receives and transmits using the same aerial and at the same time - just like a Duplex VHF radio. Do, however, read my note on the directional aerials, later.

[ QUOTE ]
Can the antenna input be switched to receive the input, rather than transmit the input from the cabel connection??? Solway say this in their discription:

nteroperable with IEEE 802.11b (DSSS) 2.4GHz-Compliant Equipment
Four modes: AP/AP Client/Bridging/Repeater functions
64 bit or 128 bit Wired Equivalent Privacy (WEP) Encryption

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's break down the modes:-
AP - Receives / transmits wireless signals to and from a LAN

AP client - Receives / transmits wireless signals to and from a single PC only

Bridge (I'm making an assumption here) joins two networks together; very similar to a router in function - but some of the rules are different; address translation etc. You don't want the bridge function

Repeater - as its name implies picks up signals and forwards it using a different channel. It's all down to the very clever nature Cell-phone technology used by mobiles.

BTW in all the above the equipment will only respond to signals from the sources that you define (otherwise there would be chaos)



[ QUOTE ]
I really thing we have to ask the distributor for clarification. This will work very well http://wirelessgardenstore.com/default.aspx and find open wi-fi but only if the pontoon dosent move!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do ring Solwise - it's easier to talk, though I found that they primarily have used the WAP-011A as an AP only.

If you do a google search on "cantenna", you'll find several articles on how to make one yourself for very little cost, but the point to note in using any directional aerial is that only equipment directly in its path - vertically and horizontally can "see" its signals. Therefore this technique will probably work for AP mode.

You have two approaches -
Try to get a signal using some form of aerial with a decent "gain" to cover the distance in one hop.

Bounce the signal from one AP to another using the repeater mode for the intermediate stations.

That's all I can cope with today!!

 

[Mariner]

Re: WiFi up the mast - Continuing saga

May have missed something in the posts but if you want to connect 1 PC to wireless broadband in the marina use a wireless bridge. For greater range you can use either a internal or external ariel but there is no need to start running kit up masts. If you want to set up a wireless network onboard or connect multiple PCs use a wireless router and plug the wireless bridge in to the router. This enables all the PCs on the boat network to connect to the marina network through the router and bridge.

Gary

 

[Mariner]

Re: WiFi up the mast - Original Post

[ QUOTE ]
Rather like my other simple question, "what do i need to disply "Lat/Long" on my PDA pointing out that i dont want charts just a simple Lat/Long as a back up,save me buying a second GPS i cant aford and would never use!! NO ONE can answer!! the ICOM rep that is a member hear advised my to spen £600 on a full nav system!!! Just tonight i was told to get a GPS mouse??? for a PDA??--they dont have an USB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Cheapest way is to buy something like a Bluetooth GPS. There are other ways (NMEA to LAN, Multiplexers etc) but they will work out more expensive now that Bluetooth GPS units are around £100.
If you can justify using a multiplexer a nice solution is to couple this with Pocket Repeater software. Basically you connect your instruments to the Bluetooth multiplexer, Serial/USB connection to PC, Bluetooth conection to PDA. Nice solution, not cheap however.

Gary

 

[Benbow]

Re: WiFi up the mast - Continuing saga

Not sure if its relevant or just adding confusion. I have not tried a cantenna or similar (because I could not easily obtain the cable and socket needed) but I got spectacular results by making a simple EZ12 reflector as described here. Without these bits of card and silver foil, my LAN bridge did not come close to bridging the gap. With them on the receive end - instant sucess.

Making them was fun, although I began to worry that my next project would be a foil lining for my hat to stop the aliens reading my thoughts....

 

[trouville]

Re: WiFi up the mast - Continuing saga

Ive been away from this thread as i simply coudent get in,the forum literally stopped!

And ive almost run out of time i have to leave very soon The above link looks good.

Just one thing. Its cleary down to an antenna, as there must be a signal to be able to use wi-fi in the first place. So a good anntenas a good idea, BUT needs a connecttor, buck to the modified PCMI wi-fi card with added connector.

 

[jonjo]

Re: WiFi up the mast - Continuing saga

Hi, I don't plan to run any WiFi connection cables inside the mast. My laptop is equipped with an internal WiFi module, this begins to pick up a WiFi signal at cockpit seat level and at boom height the signal gets better.

I was actually planning to hoist the WiFi repeater about 10 ft up the backstay and run a 12v power lead down to a socket in the engine control panel.

My objectives were a strong WiFi signal at the chart table and to avoid the clutter of temporary wires such as running a lead up the companionway steps to an aerial clipped to the sprayhood.

However I have been reading up on the subject or WiFi bridges, repeaters and access points, it all seems a bit bleeding-edge at the momment. I have concluded it will be a hassle to set up unless I use the same brand of WiFi equipment as SquareMile.

So it looks like I will end up buying a wired solution, ho hum the local WiFi cell was a neat solution conceptually.