Why stainless rigging, not galvanised?

[jerrytug]

After reading the thread in the Classic forum, and endless threads about insurance companies and replacing stainless standing rigging after 10 yrs, or not, I am really wondering:
Why don't any typical yachts use galvanised rigging, which apparently lasts the life of the vessel, and is cheap, and never breaks without warning by rust stains or broken strands?
Is it just fashion, just why exactly shouldn't I replace my 5mm stainless rigging with galvanised when the time comes?
Which would be the best type of galvanised wire to use?

Another question, would my Loos tension gauge work the same on galvanised wire?
I am probably missing something obvious, since it can't be the first time this question has been asked..

 

[john_morris_uk]

1. You can put galvanised on if you like, but a few years into the 'lifetime' that you are expecting from the wire you will be into an annual chore or parcelling it and getting boiled oil etc into the wire to stop it from rusting. The galvanising only lasts a few years…

2. You will then get fed up with the mess and muck you get on clothes and sails and all over the boat. There's a reason people talk of the 'nice' smell of old boats. Its all to do with the wood and tar and various things you have to keep applying. I suspect you would go back to stainless (maintenance free and clean and shiny) very quickly.

3. My standing rigging is ten years old and I asked my insurers about their requirement to change it. I was quite prepared to put my hand in my pocket and had even got the quotes for doing the job, but they said they weren't bothered so long as it was inspected regularly. The mast is down at the moment so the rig is getting an inspection. As we hope to set off round the world in a couple or three years, we will change it a bit closer to the time… Check with your insurer. Ten years is a bit of an arbitrary number, although oft quoted.

4. I see no reason why the Loos tension gauge won't work. Its all to do with wire deflection if I remember correctly and what the wire is made of doesn't matter.

 

[prv]

Stainless is stronger, so you can use thinner and save weight aloft and windage. It's smoother, so chafes sails less when they rub against it.

I don't know about using galvanised unprotected - on traditional vessels it's always protected by some kind of jollop, which means it tends to be "dirty" and leave stains on sails and clothing. The extreme continuation of this protection is to parcel and serve it - which means painting with grease, wrapping with canvas strips, more grease, then miles of hemp marline applied with a serving mallet, then a coating of the bosun's black varnish. The result may last the life of the vessel (not convinced otherwise) and is great to hold onto on the kind of ship where you climb aloft to stow the sails, but it's labour-intensive and adds a load more windage again.

Pete

 

[john_morris_uk]

Stainless is stronger, so you can use thinner and save weight aloft and windage. It's smoother, so chafes sails less when they rub against it.

Pete

I thought (from my dodgy memory) that they were similar strengths, but haven't got time to research and check.

 

[jerrytug]

I see, thank you very much for the comprehensive answers. Another 'good idea' bites the dust..

 

[Keen_Ed]

I thought (from my dodgy memory) that they were similar strengths, but haven't got time to research and check.

Galvanised is a little stronger.

https://www.classicmarine.co.uk/Articles/standing_rigging.htm

 

[Keen_Ed]

4. I see no reason why the Loos tension gauge won't work. Its all to do with wire deflection if I remember correctly and what the wire is made of doesn't matter.

I would think that as galvanised and stainless have different breaking strengths, they also stretch differently, so the calibration might be off.

 

[lustyd]

I read somewhere about using Dyneema for rigging. The strength is there and it's lighter but would likely need replacing more often than stainless due to chafe or UV damage. I think that might be acceptable though if it meant simpler diy rigging changes, I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking it's the hassle rather than the expense that's most off putting about replacement rigging. That could be down to living miles from the boat though

 

[rosewood]

Stainless is stronger, so you can use thinner and save weight aloft and windage. It's smoother, so chafes sails less when they rub against it.

I don't know about using galvanised unprotected - on traditional vessels it's always protected by some kind of jollop, which means it tends to be "dirty" and leave stains on sails and clothing. The extreme continuation of this protection is to parcel and serve it - which means painting with grease, wrapping with canvas strips, more grease, then miles of hemp marline applied with a serving mallet, then a coating of the bosun's black varnish. The result may last the life of the vessel (not convinced otherwise) and is great to hold onto on the kind of ship where you climb aloft to stow the sails, but it's labour-intensive and adds a load more windage again.

Pete

I must admit I dont "protect" my galvanised rigging, other than check for rust etc. Its been on 14 years and looks as good as new

 

[prv]

Galvanised is a little stronger.

https://www.classicmarine.co.uk/Articles/standing_rigging.htm

Apparently so, for the same construction, which surprises me. But you don't get 1x19 galvanised, which means that for the practical purpose of selecting shroud wire, the same strength is not available.

Pete

 

[prv]

I read somewhere about using Dyneema for rigging.

I think that's the future. There is stuff out there with a UV-protective sheath, and as for chafe, have you ever tried cutting the stuff?

Interestingly they also use traditional-style deadeyes and lanyards, except milled from aluminium instead of carved lignum vitae, and with lanyards of dyneema rather than italian hemp.

When I get round to setting up an inner forestay for a storm jib, I plan to use dyneema.

Pete

 

[Keen_Ed]

Interestingly they also use traditional-style deadeyes and lanyards, except milled from aluminium instead of carved lignum vitae, and with lanyards of dyneema rather than italian hemp.

Here: http://www.colligomarine.com/products/colligo-value/terminator-end-fittings

 

[PetiteFleur]

Many years ago, I built a Wharram cat with friends and then it was a question of cost - if I remember correctly stainless wire was about 6 times the price of galvanised so we used galvanised. Stainless has since dropped in price and it is now just a bit more expensive - and it does not rust.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Many years ago, I built a Wharram cat with friends and then it was a question of cost - if I remember correctly stainless wire was about 6 times the price of galvanised so we used galvanised. Stainless has since dropped in price and it is now just a bit more expensive - and it does not rust.

Wharram and challenged budgets seem to go together.

One of the things I recall about Wharram cats is that the designer used to encourage young ladies to go sailing with him who were obviously so poor they couldn't afford clothes.

 

[DownWest]

Wharram and challenged budgets seem to go together.

One of the things I recall about Wharram cats is that the designer used to encourage young ladies to go sailing with him who were obviously so poor they couldn't afford clothes.

John.. It is a cultural thing, polyanesian. And tends to catch the eye in the adds. One of his beach cats was at the Morbihan festival, the weather ensured that the 'crew' was kept warm by conventional means.

Wharram boats definately give a lot of 'Bang for the buck' except when looking for marina berths.

 

[MM5AHO]

Galvanized steel has a higher tensile strength than stainless (for same cross sectional area), but galvanized wire isn't anywhere near as good as stainless for corrosion protection in this environment (and I sell galvanizing! so I'm biased the other way).
Galvanizing is a sacrifical protection mechanism where the zinc is corrosded preferentially. It lasts a while where not abraded by forming an oxide carbonate skin (similar to aluminium), but as soon as that's worn away more zinc is consumed etc.
Stainless protects similarly, but with a very thin crome oxide skin thats tougher, and harder to shift.

I have just changed from using galv wire "keepers" in the bottle screws, to stainless. The galv lasted nearly the season.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I would think that as galvanised and stainless have different breaking strengths, they also stretch differently, so the calibration might be off.

The breaking strength and stretch characteristics has no influence on the accuracy of the Loos gauge. It measures tension by deflecting the wire a very small amount against a graduated scale. I don't see how the stretch characteristic will alter the reading either, but please prove me wrong if I'm talking complete rot.