Why if .......?

[DIW]

If Laws and Legislation exist to form a stuctured and governable civilised Society and to ensure that citizens are able to live their lives safe in the knowledge that they are protected from those who would seek to harm them , disposess of their property etc etc., Why then if there are Rules and Regulations on statute relating to Marine Matters which are primarily concerned with the safe passage of a craft and her crew in relation to other vessels, do an amazing amount of the sailing fraternity totally ignore even the most basic of rules and regulations and cause mayhem, confusion and danger to other users of the Sea. ( Glad I've got that off my chest had a bad weekend caused by Idiots in Portsmouth Harbour)

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[Renegade_Master]

do tell

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.suncoastmarine.co.uk>Sun Coast Sea School & Charter</A>

 

[oldgit]

Prob the same mob who spend their non boaty lives whinging about speed cameras.ie. why should they have to obey speeeeeeed limits.which surely should only apply to others who do not drive large thirsty german auto panzerwagons
Quiz time. If the big sign says 30.......what is the speed limit.....now think carefully.Do not rush...........Still cannot work it out...........FLASH...to late
Thattal be 60.00 please Tah.you just keep speeding we need to finance a few more cameras./forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.

 

[gonfishing]

Have you been crossing paths with the grey funnel line??

Just a thought Mankind created and constructed the slowest moving form of transport, then decided to race it !!!!
sums up the mentality really does it not !!!!
julian

<hr width=100% size=1>If it can, It will.

 

[DIW]

Quote - Dockyard Port of Portsmouth Order 1978 .item 3...........'All Sailing Vessels
fitted with engines ,when navigating in the approach channel to Portsmouth harbour are to proceed UNDER POWER between No4 bar Buoy and the ballast Buoy' . thats what it says that what it means , not under sail, tacking back and forth across a narrow crowded channel with a total disregard for everybody else, causing chaos and exploiting the power gives way to sail directive to the very limit.
enough said !!

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[Andrew_Fanner]

That's Portsmouth...

I've always suspected that QHM sails, otherwise there would be a few bodies hung out to dry on Point every Monday morning in the summer

<hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.

 

[BrendanS]

He came fairly close with his fog letter earlier this year

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[Dave_Snelson]

Sheesh - no different from Porthmadog then!

<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[zefender]

Re: Raggie speaks...

Agree entirely. I usually do have sail up on the way in and out but engine is always on tickover, at least. There's just not enough space at the entrance for people tacking about. It's not really a problem most of the time but on Sunday afternoons on the rush home, its just a bit daft.

As a matter of interest, if a boat was under sail alone (and thus in breach of the harbour regs) and pranged into a vessel under power, what rule takes precendance, the harbour one or the col regs?

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[Observer]

Re: Raggie speaks...

First point:
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I usually do have sail up on the way in and out but engine is always on tickover, at least.

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Strictly, you are supposed to be under power, not just with power available.

Second point:
IRPCS Rule 1 (b)
Nothing in these Rules shall interfere in the operation of special rules made by an appropriate authority for roadsteads, harbors, rivers, lakes or inland waterways connected with the high seas and navigable by seagoing vessels. Such special rules shall conform as closely as possible to these Rules.

 

[jfm]

Re: Raggie speaks...

Observer, Rule 1(b) raises more questions that it answers imho. The first bit is ok, but the statement "such rules will conform as closely as possible" etc is asking for trouble. Does that meal the local rules do not override the Colregs, or what?

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[tcm]

Re: Raggie speaks...

Local rules take precedence. But by "conforming as closely as pos" it means they shouldn't invent local rules that must not (unless absiolutely necessary) suggest going around Bell stbd to stbd, frexample. imho

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[ParaHandy]

Re: Raggie speaks...

in oct 02 QHM revised his notice and now you must be under power entering portsmuff. going back to the original post, there are instances when sail boats with engine failure do enter (should have got permission from qhm) and that's fairly obvious from desperate looks on faces of crew and lids off engine bay etc ...

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[sailbadthesinner]

yes that demonstarted the difference between the rules and interpretation
as i recall the rule about fog does not forbid boats leaving in fog but states that it is upto the skipper to make the judgement
however qhm was complaining that boats were entering and leaving without radar and could have waited until fog cleared a few hours later
all comes down to assessment of safe which will vary according to all usual variables of boat and crew

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[Observer]

Re: Raggie speaks...

Yes. The same point occurred to me, but I think tcm's answer is correct.

Zefender asked which rule would take precedence. Answer must be neither. Both can apply at the same time. So a vessel required to keep out of the way of another vessel under sail has to keep out of the way even if sailing vessel is in breach of local rule (permitted by colregs) about use of power. But, if he doesn't, sailing vessel is not relieved of obligation under 17(b):

When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision

and is still in breach of the local rule.



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[tcm]

Re: precedence

Rule 1 asks that precedence doesn't become an issue (too much) but acknowledges that local rules will have predence if there is a conflict. For example (stil in portsmouth) for small craft the local rule requires that all such boats go outside the red porthand Bell channel marker - and this rule takes precedence over (and obv does not agree with) IRPCS.

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[Observer]

Re: precedence

Yes. My point was the question of precedence doesn't arise in the case Zefender quoted. Actually (being pedantic), it doesn't arise in the example you used either because nothing in colregs AFAIK to say which side of any navigation mark one should pass (sorry)



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