Why does my baby stay have a quick release fitting?

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firstascent2002

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The baby stay on my hustler is a pain in the a**e.

It makes tacking nigh on impossible in light airs with teh wopping genoa.

It is too close in ot the mast to ever be used to fly a sail off (I think)

It has adjustable tension and a sort of highfield quick release.

Why?

What are the sail trim benefits of a tension adjustment.

Does any one ever disconect them and take them out of the way.

Thanks

J
 
firstascent2002 said:
The baby stay on my hustler is a pain in the a**e.

It makes tacking nigh on impossible in light airs with teh wopping genoa.

It is too close in ot the mast to ever be used to fly a sail off (I think)

It has adjustable tension and a sort of highfield quick release.

Why?

What are the sail trim benefits of a tension adjustment.

Does any one ever disconect them and take them out of the way.

Thanks

J
Click to expand...

quick release is for dipping the Spi pole
 
Mine is only tensioned in position for use with a storm jib, and is normally secured just aft of forward lower shroud, but inboard, so out of the way.
 
Probably fitted for use with a hanked on storm jib. My mates Sun Magic has one just for that purpose.
 
Twister_Ken said:
I once sailed a boat with that configuration. Baby stay was only ever used upwind in a blow when there was a possibility of the mast panting. Not sure your's will be the same, but might be worth asking a rigger if it's necessary under normal conditions.
Click to expand...

Mine is also rigged that way. Sparcraft have told me I can take it off in normal sailing, but, if I go offshore for long periods, or likely to be in a blow for a while, stick it back on.

I am saving for a highfield lever.
 
Think you will find ot is there to stop the mast from falling down as I suspect you have only one set of lower shrouds and the mast needs the support in the middle. They are a pain in the butt and make it difficult to tack cleanly. Not there to fly a storm sail from - too far aft. Sensible masthead rigs don't use them but have two pairs of lower shrouds.
 
NormanS said:
Mine is only tensioned in position for use with a storm jib, and is normally secured just aft of forward lower shroud
Click to expand...

Spyro said:
Probably fitted for use with a hanked on storm jib.
Click to expand...

Those sound like inner forestays rather than babystays. The bottom of a babystay is usually only a couple of feet away from the mast, too small a triangle to fly a sail in.

Pete
 
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Tranona said:
Think you will find ot is there to stop the mast from falling down as I suspect you have only one set of lower shrouds and the mast needs the support in the middle.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Would it be possible to fit two forward lower shrouds and dispense with the babystay?
 
Inner forestay or Baby stay

The inner forestay is primarily there to provide support for the middle of the mast in the fore and aft direction. You will find on most boats that the intermediate side stays pull from a point aft of abeam the mast so providing a pull backwards to the middle of the mast. This pull aft must be counteracted by a pull forward. Yes twin inner forestays may be clear of the jib and will do the same job.

Now the importance of the inner forestay depends on the size of the mast and particularly the fore and aft dimension of the mast extrusion. A thin round mast will need a lot of support while a large oval shaped extrusion will have inherent stiffness against bend fore and aft of the middle of the mast. Obviously a tall mast needs more support than a short one. Usually the design /size of the mast extrusion is chosen for the size of the boat predicated on middle support from an inner forestay.

As said without support the middle of the mast might pant fore and aft in big seas or worse may under extreme pull down ward from the forestay and side stays, crumple.

The alternative way to support the middle of the mast fore and aft is by having spreaders which are angled backwards to effectively lean on the cap shrouds. (Or the tension of the cap shrouds pushes the middle forward). this is counteracted by the aft attachment of the intermediate side stays.
My boat is designed that way. (typical fractional rig) I lost a mast once when the mount for the spreaders failed the spreader moved forward to lose the push on the middle of the mast. Middle crumpled backwards. This happened under large pressure when beating hard.

The inner forestay can also be used to bend the mast middle forward in strong winds. This has the effect of flattening the mainsail by pulling cloth forward out of the middle of the sail. This effect is very pronounced and useful on fractional rig boats but many especially non racers with mast head rigs do not see any value in this bending. This however will be why the inner forestay is adjustable as will be the backstay.

As you have observed the inner forestay can be removed for light wind sailing, with enormous advantage in tacking the big jib. You will however need to be very careful in making the judgement that the inner forestay can be disconnected. I would suggest if you have any heeling from wind then the inner forestay is needed. Obviously even in light winds a big jib can put a lot of load onto the forestay hence to the top of the mast.

As for actual calculations I am afraid they would be beyond me. You could build more robust aft angled spreaders that will provide forward push for the middle of the mast. This would give you more confidence to leave inner forestay off. Unfortunately once the mast is bent slightly under load (without middle support) it crumples far quicker than you can react in releasing pressure. A broken mast is a real mess and expensive to fix. good luck olewill

PS to that poster who is saving for a high field lever they can be made fairly easily from SS plate. Make a cardboard one first to check dimensions. Or pm me for more details.
 
Taking it's a baby not inner forestay, ( a shame ! ) there are plastic wheel jobs available from chandlers one can fit on the wire to assist the sail passing side to side in tacking, they're sometimes used on the shrouds of boats with overlapping genoas.

On overlapping genoa boats, with just a little practice and coordination between helmsperson & crew the boat can be held momentarily as the sail - not aback just loose and assisted a touch by the sheets - blows across, and can be sheeted in before the weight of the wind gets into it requiring winches.

In a fresh breeze you may need the winches for final hauling in, then that's not your stated problem anyway.
 
What is it that makes the tacking difficult? Is it the genoa sheet bowlines catching? If so then there are ways to reduce or eliminate this problem. I currently use a soft shackle through the genoa clew and a single length of genoa sheet which is looped through the shackle. Works pretty well.
 
Babystay

If you have a standard Hustler 32 then this is a babystay and required to hold the mast up! Records show that you have a single spreader rig and in line spreaders? Not normal for a babystay to have an adjuster. Some replacement rigs on the Hustler are now double spreader rigs because of the poor shroud angles.
The Hustler 35 is a double spreader rig with double lowers. I guess as has been mentioned you could fit forward lowers and then remove the babystay.
 
Lakesailor said:
Interesting. Would it be possible to fit two forward lower shrouds and dispense with the babystay?
Click to expand...

It depends.
The forward lowers would clash with the leech of the blade jib on many boats.
On some boats, the baby stay can be tensioned to bend the mast and flatten the main.
All these things inter-act, the exact effect of changing one thing in isolation can be complicated.
My Lightwave had a detachable babystay.
We fitted a plastic tube that rolled on it, tacking was not too bad.
 
The T24 I used to sail had a babystay and I second the fitting of a plastic tube (B&Q) around the babystay. It prevented most of the snags during tacking, but I'd still suggest binding the sheets together in opposing directions so as to present a smooth run to potential snags.

Rob.
 
sailing school and spars said:
If you have a standard Hustler 32 then this is a babystay and required to hold the mast up! Records show that you have a single spreader rig and in line spreaders? Not normal for a babystay to have an adjuster. Some replacement rigs on the Hustler are now double spreader rigs because of the poor shroud angles.
The Hustler 35 is a double spreader rig with double lowers. I guess as has been mentioned you could fit forward lowers and then remove the babystay.
Click to expand...

SJ 35 or Hustler 35 they are very different
my Oyster 37 has in line, Cap,Inters & lowers + baby stay with snap shackle & check stays ( only needed in a North Sea Chop ).
tacking no problem with furley genny & the baby stay stays in place until a "pole dip" is called for & that isnt very often 2 up or s/handed
 
reeac said:
What is it that makes the tacking difficult? Is it the genoa sheet bowlines catching? If so then there are ways to reduce or eliminate this problem. I currently use a soft shackle through the genoa clew and a single length of genoa sheet which is looped through the shackle. Works pretty well.
Click to expand...

My genoa always snagged on my babystay(Moody 33) but now cured by using a long sheet with a bowline in the centre to the clew. When tying the bowline I insert 3 short lengths of 10mm 3 strand jammed in the knot at each bend so it can be easily untied by pulling the strands out with pliers - the knot is then easy to untie at the seasons end. It all works a treat.
 
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