Dyflin
Well-Known Member
Bavaria Yachtbau to be sold again; investor losses approach €1bn
http://www.ibinews.com/ibinews/newsdesk/20090830130009ibinews.html
http://www.ibinews.com/ibinews/newsdesk/20090830130009ibinews.html
Who'd have thought a Bavaria could loose you a billion?
- Thread starter Dyflin
- Start date
nimbusgb
Well-Known Member
BenJenBav to BenJen....Bang! 
Prat.BenJenBav to BenJen....Bang!
Do you think Oaktree Capital Management would be buying control of Bavaria for 300 million if the company was heading for bankruptcy.
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
More likely Bain Capital will go bang. Oaktree will have bought a fire sale bargin.
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
But I understood that most of the bank borrowings on Bains highly leveraged deal were secured on the companies assets. So someone still has to stand these interest charges (or settle them)
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
I assume all these deals involve bankers that are so clever they must be initially paid a fortune and then must be rewarded with bonuses.
Many have said I would be a good banker but they mixed up the B & W!!!!!!
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
The bankers get bonuses for originally arranging debt.
The bankers get bonuses for when the Company breaks overdraft rules.
The bankers get bonuses for consultancy when its going pop.
The bankers get bonuses for selling the debt at 10 cents on the euro.
The bankers get bonuses for picking up cheap debt/equity companies and flogging them on.
In fact, they get bonuses.
Maybe so but my point is that in these cash strapped times someone has reworked the sums on Bavaria and decided to invest 100's of millions. I was responding to a post where someone had seen the headline 1 billion write off and concluded that Bavaria was about to go out of business.
These same fools decided at the onset of the credit crunch that delux yacht brands would ride out the recession but stated that Bavaria would fold. Here we are 18 months later and many delux brands have folded but Bav/Ben/Jan are still shipping in volume.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Couldn't have put it better myself.
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
the private equity investors will have used 'the banks' money, during the feeding frenzy of the last few years the banks wanted to get their snout in as many troughs as they could, see Fullcircles post.
Now with the market for new boats all going belly up there will not be the revenue stream from Bavaria sales to service the loans that Bain have incurred. The banks could pull the plug on Bain, but as they say, "if you owe the bank £10,000, you have a problem", but "if you owe the bank £several mill, the bank has a problem".
I suspect that the bank are exercising damage limitation, Bain have been forced to sell Baveria in a fire sale. Bain will go down, it will cost the banks loads, but the banks want to limit the impact.
There is a lot of it around and I have no sympathy for the likes of Bain.
Now with the market for new boats all going belly up there will not be the revenue stream from Bavaria sales to service the loans that Bain have incurred. The banks could pull the plug on Bain, but as they say, "if you owe the bank £10,000, you have a problem", but "if you owe the bank £several mill, the bank has a problem".
I suspect that the bank are exercising damage limitation, Bain have been forced to sell Baveria in a fire sale. Bain will go down, it will cost the banks loads, but the banks want to limit the impact.
There is a lot of it around and I have no sympathy for the likes of Bain.
nimbusgb
Well-Known Member
No. you saw a post and assumed that that was what I thought. All I was doing was making a crack about the often quoted benjenbav contraction.
twit
jason -and the arguenauts
Well-Known Member
No they arent. Doing about 40% of peak if I remember the Benny figures correctly. And since the volume makers are capital intensive with high breakeven volumes, that's bad for them. On the other hand, BenJeann will get govt support and in the final analysis so with BavHanse.
Boreades
Well-Known Member
As it's Bavaria, perhaps there's some poetic symmetry between
- boats with keels prone to falling off
and
- a business that the bottom has dropped out of.
- boats with keels prone to falling off
and
- a business that the bottom has dropped out of.
BelleSerene
Well-Known Member
If you can arrange and offer the finance cheaper, why don't you try?
No, I'm far from a banker.
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
I wasn't offering to be their finance house, I was merely obviating the status quo.
When I have paid off my enormous mortgage, I will be in like Flynn.
Not.
But still high volume compared with the niche delux manufacturers.
Its a theory that has fallen flat on its in view of real world events. But then real world events are an inconvenience here and frequently ignored.
rwoofer
Well-Known Member
Don't think it's about getting finance cheaper, more the case that everyone saw a way to make a quick buck and jumped in on it. When the participants see a low risk (in their eyes) way of making money, then finance will be cheap.
Why do so many people here believe they are licensed to spread lies and innuendo about high value property owned by a large contingent of fellow forumites?
Boreades
Well-Known Member
According to a report in Private Equity News, Bain is about to hand over control of Bavaria Yachtbau to ‘two distressed-debt investors’ and walk away from the millstone that’s been hanging around the Bain neck since it paid a rumoured €1.3bn for the company in 2007.
Private Equity News says US-based special-situation investors Oaktree Capital Management and Anchorage Advisors will take equal equity stakes in Bavaria Yachtbau after buying its debt for a total of around €300m.
Private Equity News says US-based special-situation investors Oaktree Capital Management and Anchorage Advisors will take equal equity stakes in Bavaria Yachtbau after buying its debt for a total of around €300m.
Yes, I read all that before posting.
So in simple terms, Bain purchased a house and paid 2x to 3x what it was worth. The mortgage payments were crippling them particularly as rental income fell. The house is still sound and standing and lettable. With this news we are told Bain has exited from a terrible investment decision.
