Who has retrofitted Fairline Mirage with Ford FSD Diesels

JackDog

JackDog

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I have acquired Fairline Mirage with Ford FSD 75hp non turbo diesels fitted to original Volvo Penta Aquadrive 280 and somewhat disappointed / confused with performance.
If anyone has similar conversion (these were supplied by Lancing Marine and have done 480 hrs before I bought boat), could you please contact me to discuss further.
Ideally I should like to visit and see how your boat runs, so as to have something to compare against.
Apart from being very noisy, 2200rpm gives 8knots and revving any higher gives impression that the engines will explode, temperature starts to creep beyond normal 90 deg after only 20mins running and I need to shut down to tickover to cool down. As a starter I have changed impellors even though ones removed were ok, checked water inlet on sterndrives and blown back through from filter to check clear.
I am located in Yorkshire but travel around with my job so can be flexible to visit. :confused:
 
You may get lucky and find another Mirage owner with these engines but chances are yours is unique.

My thoughts are that a fairly heavy 29 footer with a pair of 75hp engines is not likely to get up on the plane. Given that, I think you may have found your top speed at 8 knots and any more beans on the throttle is just labouring the engines and wasting fuel.
 
I fitted a pair of Lancings FSDTI 140hp (turbo & intercooled)diesels to a Sunfury 26'

a few thoughts...
2x 75hp in a Mirage is slow river speeds only, nowhere near planing.

Not sure what WOT revs are, but if the original (petrol) outdrives were kept, you will need mucho changes to the props to take advantage of the lower revs/ higher torque of the diesels. my props went from short hub 16x17 for the petrols to LONG HUB 18x 21 + 2" extra pitch + cupping in order to achieve correct power delivery. If you keep the original petrol props, then all that will happen is slow speed swishing of the water!

I have heard that cooling probs have happened with these engines when refitters have been mean on the size of cooling piping carrying raw water from the leg to the circulation pump. I used 22mm with no problems whatsoever.

Basic engine is good & simple, easy to fix.
Would recommend that you talk to Mike Bellamy at Lancing, he knows his product really well and supported me throughout the build process.

Would have thought that the props would be the first place to look.
 
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There was a Mirage with a conversion on the Thames a few years back but I can't recall the name of the boat. I do remember that the new diesel engines didn't use the outdrive to pick up the cooling water but that seacocks and strainer baskets had been installed. The exhausts were also through the transom rather than the outdrive.

As Neale pointed out, 2 x 75hp is not a lot for a Mirage and 8knots will probably be top speed . The original petrol engines would have been in the 120-145 hp range.
 
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Standard Fairline Mirage

1 engine option was a pair of 75hp Volvos.
A friend had this combination when fairly new and certainly never achieved anything over displacement speeds.

Another friend used Lancing for turbo kit on Ford engines (much older) and found Mike Bellamy VERY helpful.
 
There is a note on Mirage with twin diesel conversion (can't remember the engines) but circa 150 hp each IIRC in this months MBM. I think the owner claimed something like 29 Knots full chat.
 
Retrofit Mirage Diesels

Thanks to everyone who has responded.
It seems that 8knots will be the best we can manage, but with 2 x 75hp on tap I was hoping to have enough grunt to enter the tidal Ouse and Trent and even Humber Estuary with confidence.
The original paperwork from Lancing states 75hp @ 4000rpm, but if I am achieving 8knots at 2200rpm, and general concensus of all is that there will be no speed improvement at 4000rpm, what is the advantage of changing the original petrol engined props to suit the replacement diesel engines, or will they run smoother / quieter / cooler at 4000revs ??
I am thinking the first course of action would be to change the props but need to swot up on the principals of pitch etc to fully understand, unless anyone has the answer.
This weekend I shall be looking to see what size inlet water pipe is and increase if possible as per tico's suggestion. I dont want to be consigned to cruising the canals for evermore !!!!!!!!
 
JackDog said:
Thanks to everyone who has responded.
It seems that 8knots will be the best we can manage, but with 2 x 75hp on tap I was hoping to have enough grunt to enter the tidal Ouse and Trent and even Humber Estuary with confidence.
The original paperwork from Lancing states 75hp @ 4000rpm, but if I am achieving 8knots at 2200rpm, and general concensus of all is that there will be no speed improvement at 4000rpm, what is the advantage of changing the original petrol engined props to suit the replacement diesel engines, or will they run smoother / quieter / cooler at 4000revs ??
I am thinking the first course of action would be to change the props but need to swot up on the principals of pitch etc to fully understand, unless anyone has the answer.
This weekend I shall be looking to see what size inlet water pipe is and increase if possible as per tico's suggestion. I dont want to be consigned to cruising the canals for evermore !!!!!!!!
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If you want more speed you can month a turbocharger KKK26 AR 9. Then you get 100-110hp. Putting on a intercooler you can get 120hp. I have increased nozzles from 0.19mm to 0.26mm. Maybe a bosch fuel pump is easer than cav .

Else you have to change propeller but i don’t think its enough to get it out of the water. Remember to change the timing belt on these engines. Its easy.
 
Some musing for you

Find out what happened with regards to the drive there are several different gear ratios it might be worth changing the lower units vp service exchange would be one option .

It was not unusual to vastly over prop to give better handling at slow speed Which would keep the revs down



The 280 drives were used with the 40 series engines (200 HP ) so water flow should be ok





The 75 HP from the fords will be likely to be bigger horses than the peugot (md21) that was around at the same time But I would suggest speaking to lancing about prop sizes and likely
Boat speeds
 
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JackDog said:
I have acquired Fairline Mirage with Ford FSD 75hp non turbo diesels fitted to original Volvo Penta Aquadrive 280 and somewhat disappointed / confused with performance.
If anyone has similar conversion (these were supplied by Lancing Marine and have done 480 hrs before I bought boat), could you please contact me to discuss further.
Ideally I should like to visit and see how your boat runs, so as to have something to compare against.
Apart from being very noisy, 2200rpm gives 8knots and revving any higher gives impression that the engines will explode, temperature starts to creep beyond normal 90 deg after only 20mins running and I need to shut down to tickover to cool down. As a starter I have changed impellors even though ones removed were ok, checked water inlet on sterndrives and blown back through from filter to check clear.
I am located in Yorkshire but travel around with my job so can be flexible to visit. :confused:
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It wasn't the one in Selby Boat Yard was it? The one on the right side of the gate? :eek:

They tried to flog me that one about 4 years ago if it is. :)
 
" temperature starts to creep beyond normal 90 deg "

somebody in our club has exactly that problem with his Lancing conversion ?
 
I have a Princess 33 with Ford D series (80 bhp ) twin engines, driving shafts. The speeds which you mention seem about right. My engines peak at about 2200 rpm, and 2000 is basically the top end.The oat was originally fitted with Volvo petrol engines 'cos the throttles have got Volvo on them, and there is still an ignition coil nailed to a bulkhead.

Your overheating problem, needs to be checked. firstly the actual temperature as against the gauge, and the temperature of the water when its leaves the exhaust.
When was the heat exchanger last cleaned out?
 
pappaecho said:
I have a Princess 33 with Ford D series (80 bhp ) twin engines, driving shafts. The speeds which you mention seem about right. My engines peak at about 2200 rpm, and 2000 is basically the top end.The oat was originally fitted with Volvo petrol engines 'cos the throttles have got Volvo on them, and there is still an ignition coil nailed to a bulkhead.

Your overheating problem, needs to be checked. firstly the actual temperature as against the gauge, and the temperature of the water when its leaves the exhaust.
When was the heat exchanger last cleaned out?
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If you have Ford 2720 or as you put it 4D and you are only obtaining 2,200 rpm, your engines are overloaded and you are pulling at best 65/70 Hp. These are mid range truck engines with rated speed of 2,500 rpm.

The OP has light duty automotive FSD engines (Transit) with rated speed of 4,000 rpm, although they can be run at 3,500 de-rate. If he is only pulling 2,000.2,200 rpm engine is only making around 40 Hp. Sounds like drives/props have never been optimised to suit engines and whole thing is turning into milk shake machine rather than a drive system at anything over 2,200 rpm. Needs somebody with outdrive knowledge to sort out drive/prop sizing.

As to overheating Mike Bellamy uses domestic copper tubing on his marinisations, and I have no clue as to how he reaches claimed powers as he does not have a proper dyno.
OP has to go back to basics and put pressure gauge on raw water pump outlet, anything over 15 psi is sign of restiction in cooling system somewhere. No mention of exhaust but may require exhaust though transom instead of outdrive, list is endless as as these installations are often real half assed affairs. Proper tec needs to go through everything step by step.

FSD (Transit) is LOUD! about 94 dBa noise pressure at rated speed, making this engine easy to live with is like making a quiet hand grenade. You will need loadsa insulation!
 
Put it up for sale and if it sells then buy something faster. All this considering fitting turbo's or anything else will be expensive. But certainly consider changing the props but you may only get a marginal improvement.
 
As said, that is a very noisy engine. You have absolutely no chance of getting the boat on the plane, 8 knots is your lot.

Personally, i cannot see any point in re-propping to get the 4000 RPM. You'll still only get 8 knots and the noise will be horrendous, along with increased fuel consumption. A properly engined and propped planning/semi-d boat that runs a max of 4000 RPM would also be running at about 2000 RPM (maybe less) when at displacement speed.
 
scottie said:
The 280 drives were used with the 40 series engines (200 HP ) so water flow should be ok
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The water intake pipe bore on the drive was bigger with the high power diesel engines, the petrol engine water pumps turn faster at the higher revs therefore pumping more water through a smaller bore.

A diesel engine should reach 80% of max revs when under load, so the OP should reduce the pitch of the prop by approx 3", (rough ball park figures 1" of pitch = 500 revs and 1" of diamiter = 2" of pitch).

I recall these ford engines produce full power at about 3200 rpm so at 2000 the engine will strain, like trying to get a van up a hill in top.

A Mirage fitted with twin AQD21's (75hp) was stated to get 14 knots by Fairline in the adds, who believed them? you should get 10 - 12 knots but you need 30 ft of salt water under you.

Still wont plane though!
 
macnorton said:
The water intake pipe bore on the drive was bigger with the high power diesel engines, the petrol engine water pumps turn faster at the higher revs therefore pumping more water through a smaller bore.

A diesel engine should reach 80% of max revs when under load, so the OP should reduce the pitch of the prop by approx 3", (rough ball park figures 1" of pitch = 500 revs and 1" of diamiter = 2" of pitch).

I recall these ford engines produce full power at about 3200 rpm so at 2000 the engine will strain, like trying to get a van up a hill in top.

A Mirage fitted with twin AQD21's (75hp) was stated to get 14 knots by Fairline in the adds, who believed them? you should get 10 - 12 knots but you need 30 ft of salt water under you.

Still wont plane though!
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If it won't plane, it isn't going to do 10-12 knots. 8 knots max is all this'll do at displacement speeds and that's with some tide up the transom.
 
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