Whisker pole on stanchion base?

[Anchorite]

With a 150% genoa is there any technical reason not to hook the inboard end of the pole to a stanchion base? This would gain an extra 1.5 meters. My stanchion bases are solid: the question concerns the angle up to the clew, problems of guys etc. Or has anyone tried this?

 

[VicS]

With a 150% genoa is there any technical reason not to hook the inboard end of the pole to a stanchion base? This would gain an extra 1.5 meters. My stanchion bases are solid: the question concerns the angle up to the clew, problems of guys etc. Or has anyone tried this?

Does not sound too good an idea to me. How will you rig the down haul? Just not bother with one, despite the fact that it will tend to lift?

 

[sarabande]

I second VicS' concerns: the wringing stress if the inboard end jams is going to be substantial.

I can also see difficulties setting it up, with the outboard end clipped to the guy you will experience considerable in-thrust at times.

 

[Stemar]

Jissel loves going downwind gooswinged on a poled out genoa, but it does limit my ability to manoeuvre, so it's an article of faith for me that I need to be able to get rid of it PDQ. That's hard enough when it's easy to reach at the mast, at a stanchion base it's going to be even harder, unless you've thought it through well in advance - and figured in a shift and gust of a dozen knots happening at just the time you don't need it!

OTOH, why not get out there where there's room to play and give it a go. You may find Vic's right, or you may find the sheeting angle's enough that it can't rise far enough to matter. You have nothing to lose but your stanchions!

PS if they're anything like mine, I reckon that's unlikely. Mine get used when coming alongside to attach the mid spring that stops the boat!

 

[NormanS]

If I'm going to be running downwind goosewinged, I normally rig the pole etc behind the main, and then gybe the main. I also gybe the main back again before attempting to remove the pole. I do admit that I feel a loss of manoeureability when so rigged, so I don't do it in busy places. My pole is 12ft long, but very light, and attaches to an eye plate on the mast. It has no guys, uphauls or downhauls, and works well.
I can see the point about using a stanchion base, as it wouldn't require such a long pole, but I think it would be much more difficult to deal with.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

With a 150% genoa is there any technical reason not to hook the inboard end of the pole to a stanchion base?

Could work if your bases are really substantially well attached and accepting the problems others have pointed out........
Why not try it in light airs?

I've just had fitted another forestay for hank-on sails, close behind the furling forestay which has my large genoa on.

I'm not usually nervous about flying my genoa on a pole as I can quickly furl the sail in, pole and all if required.

As I have no experience of poling out a hank-on genoa or jib, I guess it could be a very different exercise at times. Any advice?

S.

 

[VicS]

Jissel loves going downwind gooswinged on a poled out genoa, but it does limit my ability to manoeuvre, so it's an article of faith for me that I need to be able to get rid of it PDQ. That's hard enough when it's easy to reach at the mast, at a stanchion base it's going to be even harder, unless you've thought it through well in advance - and figured in a shift and gust of a dozen knots happening at just the time you don't need it!

I've just had fitted another forestay for hank-on sails, close behind the furling forestay which has my large genoa on.

I'm not usually nervous about flying my genoa on a pole as I can quickly furl the sail in, pole and all if required.

As I have no experience of poling out a hank-on genoa or jib, I guess it could be a very different exercise at times. Any advice?
S.

If you wish to goosewing with the genoa poled out:

Set the pole up to windward on the uphaul and downhaul, or foreguy, with a spare sheet ( eg a spinnaker sheet) running through the end fitting while you are still on a broad reach.
Let it rest gently against the forestay while you take the extra sheet across the deck, outside the standing rigging, and clip it to the genoa clew.

Now gently bear away and when the time comes to gybe the genoa do so using the extra sheet through the pole end.

Mission accomplished without that balancing act on the foredeck with the pole in one had and the genoa sheet in the other while you hang on with ???????? ..........oh dear only got two hands... whoops splash !!!!!!! MOB.

You are now also in a position that you can easily go back to the previous broad reach , reach or even close hauled by freeing the extra sheet and gybing back again using the normal genoa sheet.
You can also complete the gybe onto the opposite tack, and sheet the genoa in under the pole with the normal sheet on to a reach even perhaps almost close hauled without having to repeat the gymnastics on the fore deck to remove the pole.

Finally when all the action has subsided you can go and remove the pole.

 

[neil_s]

That's a cunning plan, Vic! I will try it out.

Neil

 

[VicS]

That's a cunning plan, Vic! I will try it out.

Neil

How I was taught at the old National Sailing School

 

[SteveIOW]

The angle of forward lower shrouds on my boat makes using a whisker pole downwind unsatisfactory (the pole outboard end is too far forward and not far enough out to port/stbd). Trying to rig the whisker pole between the shrouds is very risky so usually have to manage without the pole at all. Maybe "Anchorite" has the same problem and sees using a stanchion base as the solution.

Steve

 

[Poignard]

I find VicS's system (post #7)works very well. I have just bought a lightweight pole to replace the heavy telescopic spi pole I used to use for poling out the genoa so it should be even easier in future.

 

[William_H]

Yes Vic's mathod works wello. You must have the jib sheet able to slide easily through the end of the whisker pole. Whisker poles can be long or short. A long one provides more area of jib facing the wind but then gives a lot of end force on pole. A short pole might give much less area to the wind but can make a jib more stable when running. A short pole can be almost anything (liike a broom handle) and can be attached to a stanchion base. Try a hole in the broom handle (or pole) and a piece of light rop to make a loop around the stanchion base. The other end of a brrom handle is perhaps more tricky although again a loop of rope might do it.
As said the pole will simply comply with the height of the clew so does not need a down haul or topping lift. But if you go really long whisker pole then you may need more control.
Of course a downhaul can help control twist of the jib so get a little more area exposed to the wind. good luck olewill

 

[Seajet]

I have found the OP's idea works well on various boats, but I'd only use it in light or settled medium / light airs.

 

[Poignard]

Good advice, Will!

My first two boats had wooden whisker poles with a spike on one end and a sort of saddle to fit the mast on the other. This worked well enough most of the time (especially in light airs) but the more sophisticated method described by you and VicS is better.

 

[Seajet]

I think the point is being missed; the OP's idea of going off a stanchion base is to gain the extra length with a whisker pole that is too short for poling out a large genoa; so OK in light airs without downhauls etc.

On one boat with no proper pole and a long way to go downwind in light conditions we used a dinghy oar from a stanchion base, worked fine.

For more serious stuff one uses a proper length pole in the traditional way as described.

 

[VicS]

I think the point is being missed; the OP's idea of going off a stanchion base is to gain the extra length with a whisker pole that is too short for poling out a large genoa; so OK in light airs without downhauls etc.

An alternative perhaps, perhaps, in light conditions is to clip the inner end to a shroud with a lashing round it to keep it at the right height.

Obviously not in conditions where the shroud could be damaged but we used to do that now and then in the Berwick using a light wooden pole that was originally made for a Pageant

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I find VicS's system (post #7)works very well. I have just bought a lightweight pole to replace the heavy telescopic spi pole I used to use for poling out the genoa so it should be even easier in future.

so, you have a pole to sell ?
what size?

S.

 

[Poignard]

so, you have a pole to sell ?
what size?

S.

Sorry Scotty! The heavier pole is being kept for use with the spinnaker and the new lighter (and shorter) pole is for use with the genoa.

 

[dom]

With a 150% genoa is there any technical reason not to hook the inboard end of the pole to a stanchion base? This would gain an extra 1.5 meters. My stanchion bases are solid: the question concerns the angle up to the clew, problems of guys etc. Or has anyone tried this?

I'd think really carefully about this technique; if you try it in light weather that stays light then fine.

But imagine you get hit by a squall and want to ditch the pole for some reason: (i) the end of the pole connected at the stanchion base may want to twist thereby imparting a rotational force on the stanchion which would damage it; (ii) when one releases a pole the direction of force is typically towards the centre of the boat which will in turn tend to jam the pole in underneath the lower guardwires and possibly damage your deck; (iii) you will then be forced to lean over the edge of the boat to try and pull the pole out, whilst the end is banging around violently at your feet! (iv) as you are struggling to retrieve the pole either it, you, or both night fall into the water!!

 

[Anchorite]

Many thanks for the several comforting words and suggestions, which tend to endorse the feasability in light weather. The stanchion bases are steel, welded to the deck. The rig is unusual: the mast is aft of the main beam with a big genoa, a staysail and a small main. Back in the Med in May (weather permitting...): I will write up the further adventures as and when!