Gludy
Active member
Which is the best marine engine and who offers the best support and lowest rip off part prices?
Volvo D12 or Caterpillar C12?
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
Volvo D12 or Caterpillar C12?
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
Which is Best Engine Volvo D12 or Cat C12?
- Thread starter Gludy
- Start date
jhr
Well-known member
I don't know, but I'm sure you are going to tell us! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
Gludy
Active member
I now nothing at all about either ... that is why I am asking!
Its a pity that the first post on the thread contributed zilch.
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
Its a pity that the first post on the thread contributed zilch.
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
jfm
Well-known member
I replied on tother thread. Can move or paste here if needed.
There's a lot of talk about parts prices. Imho it is all bolx. You have to look at the initial cost of the engine too. I think volvo discount a bit up front then collect thru high parts prices, in which case I say fair game and good luck to em. Anyway the D12 service bill I emailed you itemises out the cost of every filter, gasket, whatever.
Will Tarquin fit the volvo?
i dont have massive exp of the Cat but I would definitely go for the volvo. I think it's robust and fault free, but the most striking thing I find with it is that it is whisper quiet at cruise speed (as mentioned beofre this might be partly the exhaust installation). Both motors are 2350rpm tops and pretty similar physical size
If you order volvo, specify white not green paint
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There's a lot of talk about parts prices. Imho it is all bolx. You have to look at the initial cost of the engine too. I think volvo discount a bit up front then collect thru high parts prices, in which case I say fair game and good luck to em. Anyway the D12 service bill I emailed you itemises out the cost of every filter, gasket, whatever.
Will Tarquin fit the volvo?
i dont have massive exp of the Cat but I would definitely go for the volvo. I think it's robust and fault free, but the most striking thing I find with it is that it is whisper quiet at cruise speed (as mentioned beofre this might be partly the exhaust installation). Both motors are 2350rpm tops and pretty similar physical size
If you order volvo, specify white not green paint
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Divemaster1
Well-known member
Cannot say that I have real prefrences and also to say that the D12's have a good rep., for solid machines.
Also would the V's come with a price penalty, if you could have them installed?
CAT have lots of industrial units "out there", so guess that I first would have a look at my cruising area, then to look at dealerships in the area I would travel in and what the likelyhood for having good mechanics trained in the units I had onboard.
Also are the CAT sharing parts with other engines in same series... making parts availability a higher probability.
He sais having DD's in an area where most diesels are industrial units, and several of these offering high skills with DD's, but not so many with the Swedish make....
<hr width=100% size=1>Regards,
Alf
Also would the V's come with a price penalty, if you could have them installed?
CAT have lots of industrial units "out there", so guess that I first would have a look at my cruising area, then to look at dealerships in the area I would travel in and what the likelyhood for having good mechanics trained in the units I had onboard.
Also are the CAT sharing parts with other engines in same series... making parts availability a higher probability.
He sais having DD's in an area where most diesels are industrial units, and several of these offering high skills with DD's, but not so many with the Swedish make....
<hr width=100% size=1>Regards,
Alf
jhr
Well-known member
Ouch; touche.
OK, then, I'd get the Volvos, subject to the caveat that they haven't been around long enough - yet - to find out if there are any recurrent problems that emerge with prolonged use.
But, honestly, either will be fine............
<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
OK, then, I'd get the Volvos, subject to the caveat that they haven't been around long enough - yet - to find out if there are any recurrent problems that emerge with prolonged use.
But, honestly, either will be fine............
<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
Gludy
Active member
Yep , I am insisting that you lose one gold start for the previous thread .... it was like an essay with nothing to say.
Ok bit why would you go for the volvo's?
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
Ok bit why would you go for the volvo's?
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
DERF
Member
Got to agree with jfm.. I've got D12's and they are very "sweet motors". Much quieter than the CAT and certainly seems to suffer with less vibration than the MAN at cruising....and yes they are very quiet at cruising speed.
When looking to purchase my current boat I had a look at a P-V58 and was suplied with a fuel consumption efficiency comparrison by an owner (aircraft engineer ) who had compared the D12, C12 & similar MAN. (can't member which one)
The figures showed the D12 was considerably better than the other two in power to weight ratio & fuel consumption...although the salesmen at P'cess kept pushing the MANs... he went for the Volvo's..
Didn't keep the info sorry...
If you can geyt the volvos IMO.
Oh PS... They're lovely in white too!
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>If it doesn't kill ... it fattens</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by DERF on 25/11/2004 17:11 (server time).</FONT></P>
When looking to purchase my current boat I had a look at a P-V58 and was suplied with a fuel consumption efficiency comparrison by an owner (aircraft engineer ) who had compared the D12, C12 & similar MAN. (can't member which one)
The figures showed the D12 was considerably better than the other two in power to weight ratio & fuel consumption...although the salesmen at P'cess kept pushing the MANs... he went for the Volvo's..
Didn't keep the info sorry...
If you can geyt the volvos IMO.
Oh PS... They're lovely in white too!
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>If it doesn't kill ... it fattens</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by DERF on 25/11/2004 17:11 (server time).</FONT></P>
jhr
Well-known member
I've been impressed with the reports on them in the Motor Boat press and, as part of a new generation of engines, they are at the cutting edge in terms of performance and technology. In spite of that, they are backed up by Volvo's reputation (I don't share the derision that others seem to heap on them), so should be reliable and economic, and the dealer network ensures that you should be able to get support and back up wherever you decide to keep your boat.
As (currently) the owner of a petrol powered boat, quiet, smooth running is important to me and from what jfm says, the D12s deliver this as well.
Don't think I'll ever be in position to specify them for any boat of mine, but if I were going for the next step up from what I've got at the moment, a boat with a D4 would be a long way up the list. Seriously.
<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
As (currently) the owner of a petrol powered boat, quiet, smooth running is important to me and from what jfm says, the D12s deliver this as well.
Don't think I'll ever be in position to specify them for any boat of mine, but if I were going for the next step up from what I've got at the moment, a boat with a D4 would be a long way up the list. Seriously.
<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
Roy
New member
Suspect that Volvo have more service coverage in likely crusing grounds than Cat?? I would consider that as a key decider if I were deciding but you seem to be a very thorough chap and no doubt will have this sussed anyway. Roy
<hr width=100% size=1>What does this mean then?
<hr width=100% size=1>What does this mean then?
jfm
Well-known member
As divemaster says, location of boat matters. People buying mobos for the caribee invariably order Cats cos people there can fixem. I have heard that MAN has the best dealer back up in the Dubai area. But in Europe, afaik, Volvo and Cat both well supported
Wd be interesting to see price diff from Tarquin. In the Sq58 it used to be nearly 50grand extra for Cats instead of Volvo. Personally I would have paid 50k more for volvos. But I spect that was not all engine price, it was that fairline didn't want to fit anything but volvo. Not sure though
Anyway I think SOME of the quietness of the sq58/Volvo must be good exhaust set up. There are massive Halyard silencers. The striking quietness is on the flybridge underway, and you are a long way fom the engines, so exhaust noise is what they have eliminated. In contrast the mechanical rattle/hum of the motors which you hear in the saloon underway (with the doors shut so little exh noise) is I suspect about the same on the volvo at the cat. The volvo is quite quiet, not too noisey, but nothing special in the mechanical rattle/hum quietness department.
HOWEVER on bigmoose's new boat, hattan 56, with Cats, the exhaust noise was much higher than the Sq when underway on the flybridge. I went out on it off Poole. He sent it back for some fiddling and sunseeker themselves (not a dealer) played around. But AFAIK they didn't really get rid of the WhOOOOOAR exhaust noise, and it was worse at mid rpm than 7/8 flat out. Bigmoose told me that the Sunseeker people told him that they were always unable to eliminate the whOOOOOAR on these installations, it was a feature of the cats. So I conculde that the noise reduction on the Sq58/Volvo is only partly the Halyard silencer. and some is an intrinsic difference between the cat and volvo engines
I could be wrong but if I were buyinhg s boat tomorrow with Cat or Volvo 700/715, all other things being equal, I'd take the "safe option" and get volvo
Someone said the volvo D12 is new motor so not much installed stock. Not sure that's true. It was launched in summer 2001 and I guess there must be 2000+ installed in boats now? But it is also a truck engine (mainly in 3-400hp in trucks) so there are zillions of units in service
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Wd be interesting to see price diff from Tarquin. In the Sq58 it used to be nearly 50grand extra for Cats instead of Volvo. Personally I would have paid 50k more for volvos. But I spect that was not all engine price, it was that fairline didn't want to fit anything but volvo. Not sure though
Anyway I think SOME of the quietness of the sq58/Volvo must be good exhaust set up. There are massive Halyard silencers. The striking quietness is on the flybridge underway, and you are a long way fom the engines, so exhaust noise is what they have eliminated. In contrast the mechanical rattle/hum of the motors which you hear in the saloon underway (with the doors shut so little exh noise) is I suspect about the same on the volvo at the cat. The volvo is quite quiet, not too noisey, but nothing special in the mechanical rattle/hum quietness department.
HOWEVER on bigmoose's new boat, hattan 56, with Cats, the exhaust noise was much higher than the Sq when underway on the flybridge. I went out on it off Poole. He sent it back for some fiddling and sunseeker themselves (not a dealer) played around. But AFAIK they didn't really get rid of the WhOOOOOAR exhaust noise, and it was worse at mid rpm than 7/8 flat out. Bigmoose told me that the Sunseeker people told him that they were always unable to eliminate the whOOOOOAR on these installations, it was a feature of the cats. So I conculde that the noise reduction on the Sq58/Volvo is only partly the Halyard silencer. and some is an intrinsic difference between the cat and volvo engines
I could be wrong but if I were buyinhg s boat tomorrow with Cat or Volvo 700/715, all other things being equal, I'd take the "safe option" and get volvo
Someone said the volvo D12 is new motor so not much installed stock. Not sure that's true. It was launched in summer 2001 and I guess there must be 2000+ installed in boats now? But it is also a truck engine (mainly in 3-400hp in trucks) so there are zillions of units in service
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Mike21
New member
D12's have been around a bit longer than that,1999 I think or possibly earlier, originally 605mhp as had them on a P52 and P56's had them as well.
Don't know which are better engines, volvo or cat, but think cats more popular with commercial operators
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Don't know which are better engines, volvo or cat, but think cats more popular with commercial operators
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Gludy
Active member
The vote so far is in favour of the Volvo ebgines but not much info is coming bacl on the Cats.
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
Divemaster1
Well-known member
tcm
...
Hm. I'd specify the volvos, then bottle out cos they cost 190 quid/grand.
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ccscott49
Active member
Cat!
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Gludy
Active member
Why?
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
Mike21
New member
You could always have a look at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mak-global.com/home/home.php>CAT</A> website.
Only known one person with cats on a fairline 43, as far as I know had no problems with them and fuel consuption similar to a volvo equipped P43
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Only known one person with cats on a fairline 43, as far as I know had no problems with them and fuel consuption similar to a volvo equipped P43
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Gludy
Active member
Cat seem to have left the C12 off their web site engine menu!!!
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
jfm
Well-known member
Git!
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