which generator ?

ribrage

ribrage

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Hi Im looking into fitting a 240v generator on board my yacht shes 50ft steel ketch shed loads of locker space so room isnt an issue.
Want to be able to power usual array of non essential house hold junk...toaster... tv... heaters... etc etc

So my question being what make ? and what size Kva ? and what other issues might i face ?

I have looked on the fischer panda web site and taken some measurements
Thanks in advance
Ian
 
I agree with Swagman - we have a 4KVA Fischa Panda and Victron inverter. AC is available all the time for Microwave/toaster etc. - with no need to run the genny. DC generators will last much longer than AC gensets and are quieter and smaller. A fairly large house battery bank will also help - we have 1050Ah which will run the Air Con/Heating via the 2500KVA inverter. The DC genny will then re-charge at a max of 280 AMPS!
 
There are a number of other threads here (and in the liveaboards section I think) about gensets. Looking at AC gensets:

Brands: Northern Lights is generally the 'favourite' followed by Westerbeke and Kohler. Fisher Panda is not highly regarded I'm afraid. I know one cruiser who has had one 4 years and been happy, and three who have thrown them overboard.

Generally, the advice is that a three cyldinder diesel genset will last a lot better than a single cylinder.

Gensets need to be loaded up to 75% capacity, so sizing it is a question of working out the maximum loading. Most boaters have a problem putting enough load on the genset to work it hard enough. For example my 30am Kohler will be asked for 25amps when I'm running the watermaker et al, but if it's just battery charging, it will be down to a few amps (which is OK for a while but not all the time).

Some people say that it's OK with modern engines to run them under light load, but the received wisdom is that it's not good.

Watch out for inductive loads, typical of electric motors. When I crank up my watermaker or compressor they will demand as much as 60amps. If you are putting inductive loads on you need a genset which can hack that surge - some will die prematurely.

As ever, installation and access are really important. A good genset will last for a decade or more, and you want to be sure you can change the oil, belts and coolant easily.

I always think it's a good idea to look at the manuals and stuff before buying - you learn a lot about a company's culture by the way they put together their manuals.

Look at who is actually making the engine. For example my Kohler's engine is made by Yanmar - that gives me comfort.

Look at parts availability. If there is a problem with the back end can you order a single component or will you be in for the whole thing?

Look at quietness. A good sound insulation kit is important on a boat but makes access more difficult.

Finally, do you really really need one? It's just one more thing to go wrong. I'm happy with my genset, but if I was speccing a boat from scratch I'd put in lots of solar and wind (which are much better at float charging than a genset) and live without it. It's all money and time...
 
Busy nodding and agreeing with everything that's been written so far.

We run a Mastervolt genset, and have found the support from the UK office excellent, despite several problems in the last couple of years.

Many gensets are installed to run air conditioning systems. If you're considering this (even if the A/C could be fitted at a later date), be sure to chat with the a/c supplier and the genset manufacturer to ensure that one will run the other - you'll need a reserve of power available from the generator to help cope with the sudden demand for power when a compressor starts.

Hope this helps!
 
I like the theoretical idea of a DC generator and inverter (as the inverter is already there). I would imagine this makes the generator somewhat simpler (no frequency worries, can potentially adjust speed to load etc). is this a common installation, and are there other pros/cons - and recommended DC gensets?
 
I installed a hydraulic pump connected to my engine und run a generator (7.5kw) 3 phase with a hydraulic motor. I use this to power my dive compressor and tools and soon the oven for baking bread.
Boatsize: 30 feet
The hydraulic makes quite some noise...., engine running at 1800 rpm's

Peter
 
One advantage of the DC genset is that it runs at the speed it needs to deliver the required load - instead of an AC genny which runs at a constant speed no matter what the load - and is so quiet you can hardly hear it. Seems a bit crazy to run an AC genny just to put a few amps into your 12 volt battery.

DC gensets are making people rethink their installations because there are now large inverters that will give you up to 3KVA and more, My Victron can even be synchronized to run 5 in parallel giving up to 12.5KVA.

My 4KVA Fischer Panda genny is guaranteed for 5 years - I don't think you get that with AC gensets.
 
I have a 1999 Fischer Panda 6 kVA 230V ac with just over 1000 hours and working fine. We use it from May to September each year as we don't use marinas in the summer. It runs two CruiseAir aircons, a Mastervolt 80A charger (we don't have a big inverter, just a 600W pure sine wave). I also have 360W nominal solar panels and a 540 Ahr 12V domestic battery. We run a Spectra watermaker (10A or 20A depending on 30 or 60 liters per hour). Generally, the generator is run for two to four hours per day to provide hot water, top up batteries, etc. I am very happy and would probably go for the same system if starting from scratch.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Want to be able to power usual array of non essential house hold junk...toaster... tv... heaters... etc etc



[/ QUOTE ]

Moving house are we? Good job I'm not a neighbour - what with all that noise! A hole bay will never be the same again! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
If properly silenced and used with care and consideration for others, a generator can be used without causing any problems to people or the environment. Our carbon and noise impact is far lower than most people's and AFAIK we have never caused any nuisance or inconvenience to others. BUT - you do have to be thoughtful in the use of a generator.
 
I have been around boats long enough to know there is always a downside/compromise. What is it with DC gen set? I can see the need for fairly substantial wire, but anything else?
 
Apart from large cables (2/0) I suppose the downside is the need for a large battery bank and a large inverter to make the best of the large DC supply of charging current. That then means no worries EVER about lack of battery power. The genset only runs when needed when batteries are down to about 70% or when Air/Con or heating is on.
 
There is an efficiency problem. If you have a piece of 230V kit you can generate at over 90% shaft efficiency, but if you go through DC, batteries and an inverter you get less than 50% from shaft and that is from a shaft that is itself less than 30% efficient from the calorific value of the fuel. i.e. 15% or thereabouts. Incidentally, I never heat and seldom boil a kettle from the genny because of the dreadful efficiency - thinking carbon emissions rather than cost.
 
Hadn t really considered 12v genset and larger batery bank and using an inverter seems like a lot more to go wrong, ive been using a 2.2kva portable generator when needed.
but plan to spend more time on board soon and would like to be self sufficient already have wind generator and solar panels generating most of the power need for the boats systems( 12and 24v )nearly all the lights have been changed to LEDS and run purely on solar panels.

The portable genny gets used mainly for running extra heaters, tv and tools but it is noisey ! so i restrict its use to an hour or so.
One of the boats near me has a fixed diesel genny running on board which is barely noticable ... need to make it home from home :-}
 
My thoughts are that most power consumption would be from 12V devices - fridge, lighting etc. So minimum complexity for this seems attractive. Inverter would be used for odd items that need 240v. This is not for liive-aboard, so I aim to keep 240V devices to a minimum. 12v Gen to keep batteries full, and sometimes 12v gen+inverter for odd 240v use seems best.
 
Beware running some electronics from non-sine wave inverters. I and others I know have had gear blow up as a result. Toasters and heaters are fine, though.
 
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