sfh
New member
What to buy next
Liferaft, DSC or EPIRB, in what order?
Liferaft, DSC or EPIRB, in what order?
Which First
- Thread starter sfh
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hlb
RIP
Rather depends where your going and what in. I dont have any of those.
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Haydn
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Haydn
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Get a decent liferaft, I wouldnt bother with the other two assuming your boat's got a working VHF fitted already, unless you're planning a transatlantic crossing
tcm
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Re: no liferaft H?
ooer. Mind you, as i always say, you almost never need a liferaft, apart from when you do need a liferaft, so get a bleedin liferaft!!
ooer. Mind you, as i always say, you almost never need a liferaft, apart from when you do need a liferaft, so get a bleedin liferaft!!
byron
RIP
As far as rough weather is concerned If your boat can't survive what chance a Liferaft, how many regular day-to-day motor boat users (weekend sailors) have ever need to use one? For my money buy either an the VHF/DSC first and the EPIRB second and always have your life jackets to hand.
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omega2
Active member
Re: no liferaft H?
vhf and raft, as stated you never need one till you need one.
J HAMER
vhf and raft, as stated you never need one till you need one.
J HAMER
milltech
Active member
Re: no liferaft H?
Would it not be correct to say that anyone with an inflatable tender has a liferaft anyway sufficient for coasting purposes?
John
www.allgadgets.co.uk
Would it not be correct to say that anyone with an inflatable tender has a liferaft anyway sufficient for coasting purposes?
John
www.allgadgets.co.uk
tcm
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Re: liferaft as tender
yes agreed milltech but ....the wellbeing of the dinghy shd be maintained appropriately imho. So, the dinghy should be inflated, not inflat"able", for starters, and it should be a bit beefy rather than a bit cheap, which tends to be a primary consideration. Dinghies have low freeboard, and won't be much use to jump into in the channel - they'll be full of water very quickly, especially with four people in a 2.5-3 metre thing. Any breaking waves, for example, and that's that with a dinghy. Fine for as you say "coastal" but i wd say that that must mean within sight of land, and without white water so under a f4?
yes agreed milltech but ....the wellbeing of the dinghy shd be maintained appropriately imho. So, the dinghy should be inflated, not inflat"able", for starters, and it should be a bit beefy rather than a bit cheap, which tends to be a primary consideration. Dinghies have low freeboard, and won't be much use to jump into in the channel - they'll be full of water very quickly, especially with four people in a 2.5-3 metre thing. Any breaking waves, for example, and that's that with a dinghy. Fine for as you say "coastal" but i wd say that that must mean within sight of land, and without white water so under a f4?
hlb
RIP
Re: liferaft as tender
Would think if sinking cos of rough seas. Getting life raft out and then getting into it would be nearly imposible and as Byron says, what chance has the life raft if big boat cant stand it. Boats dont normaly sink completly anyway. But anyway if just sinking. Zoom off in the dinghy for a plug!
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Haydn
Would think if sinking cos of rough seas. Getting life raft out and then getting into it would be nearly imposible and as Byron says, what chance has the life raft if big boat cant stand it. Boats dont normaly sink completly anyway. But anyway if just sinking. Zoom off in the dinghy for a plug!
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Haydn
Divemaster1
Well-known member
Re: no liferaft H?
Would agree in principle, although it needs to be "Suitable for conditions, No. of persons onboard, Inflated and ready to use"
Although your boat may be smaller than 13.7m, you should think about the Merchant Shipping Regulations (Not the whole, but 5 v), when you do your "passage planning" and "risk assesment". Perhaps a bit OTT for near costal, but I'd rather be safe than sorry....
(5) Every ship of 13.7 metres in length or over but less than 24 metres in length and engaged on a voyage to sea in the course of which it is more than 3 miles but less than 20 miles from the coast or shall carry,:
(a) one or more inflatable liferafts with a total capacity to accommodate at least the total number of persons on board. The liferaft(s) provided should be either:-
i) constructed to SOLAS standard, Wheelmarked or DTLR approved, except that the liferaft(s) should be equipped with “SOLAS B PACK” ;or
ii) built to the International Sailing Federation (ISAF), Offshore Special Regulations (OSR) Appendix A Part 2 requirements or to an equivalent ISO Standard. Liferaft(s) should be equipped to a level equivalent to that of a "SOLAS B PACK". This may, where necessary, include a "grab bag" to supplement the equipment integral to the liferaft; or
iii) built to the International Sailing Federation (ISAF), Offshore Special Regulations (OSR) Appendix A Part 1 requirements and manufactured prior to 1st July 2003, until replacement is due. Liferaft(s) should be equipped to a level equivalent to that of a "SOLAS B PACK". This may, where necessary,
include a "grab bag" to supplement the equipment integral to the liferaft; or
iv) built to the ISO Inshore Liferaft Standard requirement; or
v) alternatively, an equivalent capacity CE marked Category C rigid or inflated inflatable dinghy ready for immediate use;
AHM
Would agree in principle, although it needs to be "Suitable for conditions, No. of persons onboard, Inflated and ready to use"
Although your boat may be smaller than 13.7m, you should think about the Merchant Shipping Regulations (Not the whole, but 5 v), when you do your "passage planning" and "risk assesment". Perhaps a bit OTT for near costal, but I'd rather be safe than sorry....
(5) Every ship of 13.7 metres in length or over but less than 24 metres in length and engaged on a voyage to sea in the course of which it is more than 3 miles but less than 20 miles from the coast or shall carry,:
(a) one or more inflatable liferafts with a total capacity to accommodate at least the total number of persons on board. The liferaft(s) provided should be either:-
i) constructed to SOLAS standard, Wheelmarked or DTLR approved, except that the liferaft(s) should be equipped with “SOLAS B PACK” ;or
ii) built to the International Sailing Federation (ISAF), Offshore Special Regulations (OSR) Appendix A Part 2 requirements or to an equivalent ISO Standard. Liferaft(s) should be equipped to a level equivalent to that of a "SOLAS B PACK". This may, where necessary, include a "grab bag" to supplement the equipment integral to the liferaft; or
iii) built to the International Sailing Federation (ISAF), Offshore Special Regulations (OSR) Appendix A Part 1 requirements and manufactured prior to 1st July 2003, until replacement is due. Liferaft(s) should be equipped to a level equivalent to that of a "SOLAS B PACK". This may, where necessary,
include a "grab bag" to supplement the equipment integral to the liferaft; or
iv) built to the ISO Inshore Liferaft Standard requirement; or
v) alternatively, an equivalent capacity CE marked Category C rigid or inflated inflatable dinghy ready for immediate use;
AHM
jimg
New member
I agree get a liferaft. There are other hazards such as fire etc. not just rough seas. A dinghy is OK if you can launch it quickly. However the liferaft must be easily accessible as well, not tucked away at the bottom of a locker !
tcm
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H\'s special arrangement with Fire Brigade
The special arrangement is, they won't bother you and you won't bother them.
The advantage of the liferaft is that it floats, and won't be on fire.
Let me assure you that boats do sink completely, lots of them, even big ones, even yours!
The special arrangement is, they won't bother you and you won't bother them.
The advantage of the liferaft is that it floats, and won't be on fire.
Let me assure you that boats do sink completely, lots of them, even big ones, even yours!
byron
RIP
Re: no liferaft H?
perfectly right. As I stated earleir, name one one coastal/cross channel weekend sailor that has ever needed a Liferaft. An inflatable is perfectly adequate.
http://www.alexander-advertising.co.uk
perfectly right. As I stated earleir, name one one coastal/cross channel weekend sailor that has ever needed a Liferaft. An inflatable is perfectly adequate.
http://www.alexander-advertising.co.uk
jfm
Well-known member
Re There but for grace of God go we....
Not sure about your logic Byron. I have never needed a liferaft, nor lifejacket, flares, Epirb, the car seatbelt, any of the 16 airbags swmbo and I have, the seatbelt in a plane, those emergency escape chutes in the plane, the stuff in our grab bag, my E101 certificate, the proceeds of my life insurance, house insurance, the red triangle and jack in boot of my car....... but we have/use all of these things because we see others being rescued or whatever by them, all the time. There but for the grace......
Not sure about your logic Byron. I have never needed a liferaft, nor lifejacket, flares, Epirb, the car seatbelt, any of the 16 airbags swmbo and I have, the seatbelt in a plane, those emergency escape chutes in the plane, the stuff in our grab bag, my E101 certificate, the proceeds of my life insurance, house insurance, the red triangle and jack in boot of my car....... but we have/use all of these things because we see others being rescued or whatever by them, all the time. There but for the grace......
byron
RIP
Re: Re There but for grace of God go we....
Hey! What do I know anyway, it is just my opinion based on my own experience. It is only offered and not mandatory. The original question was a matter of 3 choices, I chose to select the liferaft as my third choice.
http://www.alexander-advertising.co.uk
Hey! What do I know anyway, it is just my opinion based on my own experience. It is only offered and not mandatory. The original question was a matter of 3 choices, I chose to select the liferaft as my third choice.
http://www.alexander-advertising.co.uk
milltech
Active member
Re: no liferaft H?
I've been trying to use the MSA as a necessary means of reducing the price of a boat I'm interested in. The broker says that the RYA have arranged an exemption for private yachts and that details are to be found in December MBY, but my newsagent seems to have run out.
Do you know anything about this?
John
www.allgadgets.co.uk
I've been trying to use the MSA as a necessary means of reducing the price of a boat I'm interested in. The broker says that the RYA have arranged an exemption for private yachts and that details are to be found in December MBY, but my newsagent seems to have run out.
Do you know anything about this?
John
www.allgadgets.co.uk
milltech
Active member
Re: liferaft as tender
As a former salesmen of inflatable boats I would say that whilst price is always to the fore, the REAL reason that cheaper boats sell faster is because they are lighter. In my humble experience the three most important issues for yachtsmen over 40 when buying an inflatable boat are the weight, the weight, and then the weight, all other things come a long way second, (or do I mean fourth)?
John
www.allgadgets.co.uk
As a former salesmen of inflatable boats I would say that whilst price is always to the fore, the REAL reason that cheaper boats sell faster is because they are lighter. In my humble experience the three most important issues for yachtsmen over 40 when buying an inflatable boat are the weight, the weight, and then the weight, all other things come a long way second, (or do I mean fourth)?
John
www.allgadgets.co.uk
milltech
Active member
tcm
...
Disagree: Get a liferaft in the channel
Won't get many to argue against this - the people who really needed a liferaft are all dead, like those sailors a couple of years ago in the solent, like two boats who collided of south of france this summer, none of the parents and all 4 kids died (making total of 38 in a 38-mile x 2mile stretch of water in one season) .
H's dinghy - is that the one that was swamped in three feet of water with just two of them in it?
In a sinking the requirement is for another boat, any boat, now. Dinghies are shackled tight, strapped here or there, or even in garages at the back.
No, i don't know the names of people who needed a liferaft, they're dead.
However, if there is only a dinghy and no liferaft...it should be inflated, ready for fairly quickly launching, like a liferaft. On the rear swimplatform is okish maybe, but towed or perched in cockpit is far better.
I think in a garage, or on davits and definitely the blowup ones down a lazarette, are all rubbish.
Worth noting that even if the boat takes 20 mins to sink, one won't have 20 mins to sort the dinghy. Why? cos all efforts, including the final five minutes, are spent on fixing the boat. Only when it's definitely gonna sink (i.e when it's nearly sunk) does one give up and get passports and liferaft.
Wonder which end will go down first? If it the heavy end, that's got the dinghy strapped to it. If its the pointy end, then the davits are up in the air. if it's on davits anyway, it may be relying heavily on gravity to launch the boat and so on....
Won't get many to argue against this - the people who really needed a liferaft are all dead, like those sailors a couple of years ago in the solent, like two boats who collided of south of france this summer, none of the parents and all 4 kids died (making total of 38 in a 38-mile x 2mile stretch of water in one season) .
H's dinghy - is that the one that was swamped in three feet of water with just two of them in it?
In a sinking the requirement is for another boat, any boat, now. Dinghies are shackled tight, strapped here or there, or even in garages at the back.
No, i don't know the names of people who needed a liferaft, they're dead.
However, if there is only a dinghy and no liferaft...it should be inflated, ready for fairly quickly launching, like a liferaft. On the rear swimplatform is okish maybe, but towed or perched in cockpit is far better.
I think in a garage, or on davits and definitely the blowup ones down a lazarette, are all rubbish.
Worth noting that even if the boat takes 20 mins to sink, one won't have 20 mins to sort the dinghy. Why? cos all efforts, including the final five minutes, are spent on fixing the boat. Only when it's definitely gonna sink (i.e when it's nearly sunk) does one give up and get passports and liferaft.
Wonder which end will go down first? If it the heavy end, that's got the dinghy strapped to it. If its the pointy end, then the davits are up in the air. if it's on davits anyway, it may be relying heavily on gravity to launch the boat and so on....
Divemaster1
Well-known member
Re: no liferaft H?
Just received MBY this morning, so will read through tonight and get back if I find anything of interest.
In the mean time you can always quote RYA's web site that states:
"Boats over 13.7m (45 ft) hull length : If your boat is over 13.7m (45 ft) hull length, you must comply with Merchant Shipping Regulations."
Also you should know that the hull length is calculated as LOA + Waterline / 2.
AHM
Just received MBY this morning, so will read through tonight and get back if I find anything of interest.
In the mean time you can always quote RYA's web site that states:
"Boats over 13.7m (45 ft) hull length : If your boat is over 13.7m (45 ft) hull length, you must comply with Merchant Shipping Regulations."
Also you should know that the hull length is calculated as LOA + Waterline / 2.
AHM
