Which engine / supplier?

[Tam Lin]

Hello everyone, although I have been following the ECF for a few months this is my first post. I bought a cheap Westerly Centaur last year and after the first year's sailing I have decided that I need to renew the old Volvo MDB2 with something more modern. Would anyone like to give me advice on what to go for and a reliable person/company to install it? Although cost is always important, getting the right engine fitted properly is the main thing. The boat is on the Blackwater so any recommendations need to be within travelling distance.

Thanks, Bob

 

[sailorman]

Hello everyone, although I have been following the ECF for a few months this is my first post. I bought a cheap Westerly Centaur last year and after the first year's sailing I have decided that I need to renew the old Volvo MDB2 with something more modern. Would anyone like to give me advice on what to go for and a reliable person/company to install it? Although cost is always important, getting the right engine fitted properly is the main thing. The boat is on the Blackwater so any recommendations need to be within travelling distance.

Thanks, Bob

Lindsey Rufford in Ipswich has a very good reputation & is also a local Beta agent / installer

 

[tillergirl]

Interesting subject upon which you will find many opinions with individuals (like me) who have their preference borne out of their own experience. Frankly you are not going to go far wrong with any of the modern diesels - Yanmar, Volvo, Beta, Nanni - and they all have their supporters. It will be said that Volvo and Yanmar spares are very expensive and they are but then with a well installed modern disel which is well maintained and used sensibly you will have had bad luck if you experience any major failure for a while.

When I re-engined, I looked at the four makes above and there was little to choose between them especially in price. Volvo were odd in that you had to actually had to speak to the dealer you were going to buy from to get quoted a sensible price which was competitive with all the others. At the time I bought, the Yanmar was the most expensive and I ruled that out since it didn't seem to give anything extra for the money. I can't remember why I decided against the Nanni but I picked the Volvo over the Beta on the grounds that it seemed quieter (not a scientific check) and because I didn't like the annual need to service the heat exchanger and check on the anode (yet another thing to replace). That made me look at the heat exchanger on the Beta and it was noticeably the smallest of all the four engines of comparable size, in fact quite small. So in the end I picked the Volvo. I haven't regretted it - but then there will be many who have not regretted the different choice they made.

I bought the Volvo from Volspec but I did not get them to install it - and without knowledge I would guess them expensive - but I did buy all the sundries (exhaust pipe, waterlock etc) from them which came at a good discount because I had bought the engine there. They were not bothered that they were not installing it and as part of the warranty they came and inspected and tested the installation at no cost.

You don't say where on the Blackwater you are?

 

[sailorman]

Interesting subject upon which you will find many opinions with individuals (like me) who have their preference borne out of their own experience. Frankly you are not going to go far wrong with any of the modern diesels - Yanmar, Volvo, Beta, Nanni - and they all have their supporters. It will be said that Volvo and Yanmar spares are very expensive and they are but then with a well installed modern disel which is well maintained and used sensibly you will have had bad luck if you experience any major failure for a while.

When I re-engined, I looked at the four makes above and there was little to choose between them especially in price. Volvo were odd in that you had to actually had to speak to the dealer you were going to buy from to get quoted a sensible price which was competitive with all the others. At the time I bought, the Yanmar was the most expensive and I ruled that out since it didn't seem to give anything extra for the money. I can't remember why I decided against the Nanni but I picked the Volvo over the Beta on the grounds that it seemed quieter (not a scientific check) and because I didn't like the annual need to service the heat exchanger and check on the anode (yet another thing to replace). That made me look at the heat exchanger on the Beta and it was noticeably the smallest of all the four engines of comparable size, in fact quite small. So in the end I picked the Volvo. I haven't regretted it - but then there will be many who have not regretted the different choice they made.

I bought the Volvo from Volspec but I did not get them to install it - and without knowledge I would guess them expensive - but I did buy all the sundries (exhaust pipe, waterlock etc) from them which came at a good discount because I had bought the engine there. They were not bothered that they were not installing it and as part of the warranty they came and inspected and tested the installation at no cost.

You don't say where on the Blackwater you are?

The Nanni differ from the Beta`s in the heat exchanger dept.
mine is the 4150 with no anodes to decay & block the h/e. the H/e needs checking every only every 400 hrs

 

[Burnham Bob]

I would get a quote from French Marine at Brightlingsea. They supplied me with a Yanmar 1GM10 and were incredibly helpful over the time i had the boat.

However, I've now got a Beta in the current boat which was installed by a firm in Ramsgate as a package deal when I bought the boat.

Haven't had any problems changing the anode in the beat, although some forumites have reported that the Johnson impellers are a bit fragile and some bits end up in the heat exchanger, but that's probably a dud batch (I'll find out when I check mine in the next week or so.)

Nannis are the same basic engine as Tillergirl says so as far as engine quality and reliability you won't go far wrong with either. My yanmar never missed a beat but it was raw water cooled and a 1GM10 might not be quite man enough for a Centaur.

Why don't you go to the boat show and see what you can get as a deal? the manufacturers all have stands and sometimes they want to do deals to pay for the stand space ( i got a great deal on the yanmar that way). see if you can get a 'package' including installation but you'll need to know exactly what you can reuse before they'll give you a firm price for installation.

 

[Koeketiene]

I would get a quote from French Marine at Brightlingsea. They supplied me with a Yanmar 1GM10 and were incredibly helpful over the time i had the boat.

I did ask them for a quote when I was looking to re-engine.
Thought it was a mobile phone number

 

[MoodySabre]

You may find that a Beta has the advantage of fitting the existing engine beds because it has adjustable feet. Might be worth talking to Hardy Engineering in Burnham who are Beta agents.

You will probably find that modern engines turn the other way round to your old one and that a new prop and shaft are also necessary.

 

[Rafiki]

Just a point on changing engines. The cost of the engine itself is only part of the overall cost. The cost of major surgery to get it in can make a big difference, so engine beds, exhaust, water intake, prop shaft, prop direction. The close you can get to a "slot-in" replacement the cheaper it will be for you. So it might be worth looking at Volvo, that's certainly why I have replaced Bukh with Bukh in two different boats.

 

[Independence]

I'd stay away from French Marine. They put one over on me with my last boat and also to a friend of mine who was easy meat when exporting an engine abroad.

I complained at the time to the importers who were very helpful and acknowledged they had had vrious complaints.

 

[Tam Lin]

Thanks everyone who took the time and trouble to reply to a first time poster on this forum. It confirms what I have thought about the people on this forum from reading it over the last few months - a helpful lot!
I think Tilergirl is right when he says that I won't go far wrong with any of the modern engines, after all they are all going to be better than my 40 year old diesel, so in some respects it doesn't matter which one I choose. The important thing for me is that I can trust the person/company doing the installation and that it all works reliably afterwards.
Here different people have different opinions, I have had a chat with French Marine and they are coming to do a quote, but some people have recommended them and others said "Keep away". It can all get rather confusing and I guess that in the end you have to make up your own mind!
I knew before I talked to French's that I would need new gear beside the engine, the surveyor said the prop needed replacement and there is no water lock on the exhaust or strainer on the intake and I guess it is no bad thing to replace 40 year old stuff anyway but I think that it would be a good idea to get a second opinion before spending a considerable amount of money. After all I will only do it once and I would like to do it properly.
Good idea about the Boat Show, I will give it a whirl after Christmas.
The boat is at Marconi Sailing Club, which for anyone who doesn't know is on the left, just before you get to Osea Island.

Thanks again for all the thought put into the replies.

Bob

 

[Leighb]

I thought I might just add one point which has not been mentioned so far.

Do check carefully the dimensions of your engine compartment and the proposed engine including ancillaries. I don't know the Centaur and it may have a generous amount of space, but modern engines have a very different profile to older Volvos which may cause a problem if not checked out.

Incidentally I had my Halmatic 30 re-engined by Gerald Abbott of Holbrook, he travels about, but am not sure if he goes as far as the Blackwater.

The Beta 20 he fitted to replace the MD7 required special mountings which he fabricated, and new shaft and prop.

There is only about 1/2" clearance between the alternator and the side of the engine bay and the Beta is I believe not especially wide for a modern engine.

 

[Tam Lin]

Sorry, just thought of another thing. I have emailed several firms about a new engine including some recommended on the forum, only French Marine have replied. Don't they want my business or do they not take email enquiries seriously?
Bob

 

[MoodySabre]

If I was spending that much I'd go and have a chat with them.

If you are looking for an installer then I'd recommend John Rook of Althorne Marine 07939100822. He is based at N. Fambridge so local and reliable and reasonable. He might also have ideas about what would fit easily without alterations and with reasonable access to filters etc.

 

[MrCramp]

Sorry, just thought of another thing. I have emailed several firms about a new engine including some recommended on the forum, only French Marine have replied. Don't they want my business or do they not take email enquiries seriously?
Bob

I would not just bang off a load of Emails if I was in your position. I am sure some of the companies are busy and like me would react much better to a telephone call. In a short call they will be able to ask all the questions which will allow them to give you a serious response.

My son has a Volvo MD2B in his Westerly Tiger and even though it has been reliable it is very noisy and he (means WE) are taking it out and fitting a Perkins Perama M20 (103-06) the same base engine as a Volvo Penta 2020. I got that lightly used engine with a project boat and it runs like a sewing machine, smooth and quiet.

The problem with a larger company is that they employ a number of engineers of various capabilitites, so you are not just dealing with one person, and they have a level of overheads which they need customers to pay for. Fitting a new engine is not rocket science and any experienced "one man band" with a good track record is likely to do a good job for you.

I almost got ripped off by French Marine at Titchmarsh 10 years ago and would not go near them. They wanted £200-300 to supply a new water pump when the pump leaked very badly, but Halls at Walton on the Naze put new bearing and seal in the old one for £30!! Still running well today!

Good Luck.

 

[Simonpk]

It might be worth posting this on WOA website, there's bound to be a number of Centaurs owners on there who have made the change.

FWIW my GK has a new Beta 13.5, which I find is superb.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Fox's were the cheapest quote for a new engine by some margin. Then they checked my existing engine and quoted a few hundred to fix it, jolly nice people. Mind you they then discovered the stern tube was bust and had the perform major surgery to sort it.

 

[sailorman]

Fox's were the cheapest quote for a new engine by some margin. Then they checked my existing engine and quoted a few hundred to fix it, jolly nice people. Mind you they then discovered the stern tube was bust and had the perform major surgery to sort it.

i noted you were "entertaining" the boy Tom again today

 

[Oldgeezer]

I have a beta marine 20hp in my Centaur. Fitted by Eversons Woodbridge.
Impeller shed a vane at 27 hrs use (apparently there were a few dodgy ones) But plenty of room to take the back off the heat exchanger and find it.
The oil sump pump broke on its first use after 50 hours - replaced under warranty and a simple job to change (newer engines have a different sump pump which is now fitted to mine - changing oil is a doddle)
There's plenty of room to work on it (well for a boat anyway!)
Although I've had these minor problems I'd still recommend the engine - it runs smoothly with plenty of power.

I'm sure all other engines are just as good so add up all the costs for new prop / shaft / mounts etc and go for the cheapest!

 

[Colvic Watson]

There is a dealer for them now in Norfolk

 

[rib]

you cant beat beta power