Which E-chart/Plotter?

[meddite]

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gifI'm a potential purchaser of a new chart plotter. Does anyone have advice based on experience/hindsight.
I'm planning to supplement our current paper charts/Yeoman/main GPS with a daylight viewable colour set, with integral aerial.
We've researched at great length and, what appeared to be a simple quest has resulted in information overload, particularly with regard to format, new hardware, development and compatibility.
I've read the PBO451 group report and Colin Jones' helpful comparison article.
We liked the Navman 5500i (C-Map), and the Garmin 172c (Bluechart). However, the charts for these appear very expensive compared with Navionics Gold XL3. We cruise the western and central Med and note that a single Navionics chart will cover an area from Portugal to Sicily which will require 3 or 4 charts (at around the same £180 price each!) in the other formats.
Any answers/advice would be welcome, in particular:
1. Is there a small daylight viewable, waterproof(IPX7) plotter with integral aerial which takes Navionics Gold XL3 charts?
2. Is one market leader likely to maintain future production above the others?
3. Is there a preferred format for Med use?
4. What are the pros/cons between the formats?
5. Is the extra cost of C-Map & Bluechart outweighed by plotters offering better performance and ease of use?
Thanks in anticipation.

 

[pvb]

It\'s a bit like computers...

In many ways, this chartplotter business is a bit like buying a computer. As soon as you make your mind up and pay your money, you find that there's a better/cheaper/faster model on the market. So you need to minimise the downside and look to how much use you'll get from your purchase. So your question 2, about maintaining future production, is very relevant.

I've just been through a similar decision process, and I've replaced a Navman 5600 with a Raymarine C-series. Here are some fairly random thoughts....

C-Map prices are dropping, so the cost implications of choosing C-Map may not be too bad.

I wouldn't touch Garmin Bluechart equipment - they seriously upset people by discontinuing G-Charts, and the same could easily happen again.

Raymarine is a major player, and they seem to have a secure future in the market, so their choice of Navionics is significant. I haven't spent enough time using Navionics charts yet to be able to say whether they're better or worse than C-Map, but my initial impression is that the formats are fairly similar.

You've specified an internal aerial - I'd ignore that, because it will restrict your choice too much, and there's no real problem putting a separate GPS antenna on your pushpit. It'll take you a few hours to run the wiring; so what?

You've specified waterproof, which most of them are, so I assume you're contemplating a cockpit mount. On this basis, I'd suggest you think about minimum screen size. I had a Navman 5600 (6.4" screen) for a couple of seasons, and it was mounted under my sprayhood. The screen size was just about OK for viewing from the helm. Anything smaller would have been a bit difficult.

Screen resolution is another key consideration. My Navman 5600 had a 320x240 screen, which was OK for viewing across the cockpit (because smaller detail wouldn't have been visible to my tired old eyes) but I'd have appreciated finer detail when sitting next to it. So a 640x480 screen resolution is something to aspire to.

Also bear in mind that the purchase price of the plotter is only the start - you've got to buy chart cartridges too (and update them), so the long-term cost is quite different. This means that a hundred quid or so difference in initial price isn't necessarily a major factor if you consider the true long-term costs.

If you want to go with Navionics, there's a choice of plotter manufacturers. The main ones in terms of general availability are Geonav, Lowrance and Raymarine. If you're happy with a 320x240 resolution and about a 5.7" screen, you could buy a Geonav 6, a Lowrance 5000C or a Raychart 435 for between £600 and £650. If you're prepared to pay £900, you can get a 6.4/6.5" screen and 640x480 resolution with a Lowrance 6000C or a Raymarine C70. And remember that, although it doesn't sound much bigger, a 6.5" screen is 30% bigger in area than a 5.7" screen.

Just to further complicate your decision, there's the fact that you could, at some stage, simply add a radar scanner to the Raymarine C-series and you've got a radar/chartplotter.

I'd suggest you go and spend some time playing with a C-series and see what you think.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with all of pvb's excellent objective post. I went for the Navman 5500i with integral GPS which I usually use set so that the GPS data is coming from the boat's main Raymarine GPS (the GPS data comes in via NMEA). The benefit I see in having the internal available is in the case of power failure you can rig up a small 12V supply which will allow you to run your plotter. Also, you can easily take it with you onto other boats, or even the tender, if that's of interest.

 

[mikebees]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

Excuse me muscling in on Meddites post but as a recent inheritor of a Raymarine 435 on a second-hand boat, I also found pvb's comments very useful. Can somebody please advise whether the Navionics Gold CF cards can be played at home on a pc for winter passage planning etc? I cannot find any info about this and would imagine that Meddite might also be interested in an answer from one of our experts. I am afraid of experimenting in case I corrupt the card. Thanks.
Mike

 

[meddite]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

Thanks pvb for your very comprehensive comments, and to Lemain. No problem with mikebees input - the more information on the subject the better!
I think we'll still look for integrated aerial. Routing of cables to the pushpit from our centre cockpit is a bit tortuous. Raytheon, Geonav and Navman all offer appropriate units, and I guess we may find others.
Pity about Garmin. We tried a dealers display unit and liked the declutter option, very high quality sunlight screen viewing, excellent resolution and the operation is very similar to our handheld Garmin GPS III+. However, their track record on charts leaves considerable food for thought. I had previously called Garmin with some questions on their kit and asked if they had any future plans for wide area charting. Their technical staff were not aware of any.
We're now leaning towards a unit that will run Navionics. The chart costs (based on coverage) are one third of their competitors and if/when we return the boat from the Med to the UK the cost savings will be considerable. Probably not an issue for boats who cruise in a restricted area, but Navionics certainly seems to be the e-chart of choice, costwise, if covering several thousand miles of new waters.
The move to that format by Raytheon must also significantly help secure future Navionics production.
I wonder if anyone has any criticisms of Navionics charts?

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

I have been using navionics charts now for 3 years. I have no complaints at all, I find them easy to read and the seamless construction works very well. Zoom level is fine, in fact more than enough when in narrow channels etc.

I use a Geonav 6 B&W, I was contemplating selling it recently. Then I started some research, cos I quite fancied upgrading to colour, but then I read the current consumption of the colour displays, sod that!, my plotter is on 24 hrs on passage, it eeks out teeny amounts of power, many colour units I saw were using nearly an amp.

Big yes for navionics, and for what you are looking for in a plotter have a look at the geonavs.

Hope this helps....

 

[Talbot]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

Navman 5500 uses 600 millieamps at 11-18 volts but only if the full backlight is being used (I use about half backlight) A good easy to use waterproof system. C-maps are renown for supporting older formats, and their prices are falling with their standard NT+ in order to be able to charge more for the new C-Map Max (not suitable for either the 5500 or the 5600) They have my vote!

 

[trouville]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

Ive got a Garmin 72,and just discoverd it can be used as a chart plotter with Garmin "blue chart" or other maps

Is the BC CD rom a compleat set of charts for Europe? and would it be worth getting a PC cable so i could plan with those charts??Any one ever see them in use??

 

[rwakeham]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

Slight tangent but I have Navionics XL charts on a small cartridge. I thought I was also being sold a format that I could use at home with chartplotter software. I wanted to plan my routes and journeys for the summer. I phoned up Navionics and they were less than helpful - You can not do this with any Navionics charts. They are writing some software evidently but no information on when and how much.

 

[Anwen]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

I spoke to Navionics at the LIBS. I think they realise that they are losing out to C-Map because they don't have any PC software capable of using the chart cartridge for passage planning at home or on a laptop. They gave me the impression that they are taking this seriously and developing an application, but couldn't give me an anticipated release date. This aside, I think the new XL3 charts are excellent value for money, and I'm pleased with my Raymarine 435 plotter.

 

[frilaens]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

I have the 276C and BlueChart CD version which covers the whole Atlantic. The CD is loaded onto your PC and you get a key for 1 area. You can get an additional key for a second area, but after that you may need another CD I think. You would need a PC cable (mine is USB) to program the brick when it is in the unit or a separate brick programmer.

 

[Guest]

You could join the group and ask the 1100 + members ?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[BrendanS]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

Once you have a CD, you can buy as many area unlock codes as you like. That is the big advantage of the CD, as you can quickly gain access to other areas

 

[frilaens]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

Yes, you are correct. I mis-read the part about being allowed to have a chosen area from the CD on two units. You can install an unlocked area onto as many PCs as you like.

 

[charles_reed]

In a similar position to you I've opted for the Lowrance 3300C - not with integral aerial, but totally up to date with WAAS (which works in the Tevere) NMEA 2000 in addition to 083. It's below but the screen is easy enough to see with the sun directly on it.

Personally I would have preferred to stick with Garmin, but their cartography (cost and accuracy) put me off.
C-Map charts are good and the most widely available. Unfortunately all their supported chartplotters are obsolescent.

Another advantage is that it's the cheapest on the market.

I've been using electronic navigation for the last 12 years and assure you that you'll soon be retiring the Yeoman and the stand-alone GPS.

The Navionics Gold XL3 cartridge is good for Sardinia, Corsica, Cote d'Azur and the Tyrrhenian, can't speak about the other areas covered because I don't know them intimately.
Most plotters can't handle all three of the charts on it in parallel so you have to switch from one to the other.
The list of facilities is a bit stilted but the tidal movements useful and reasonably accurate (for the N end Adriatic).

In fact the cartography is far more critical than the chartplotter, choose that first and then look for the plotter. Investment in the charts will be far greater than that in chartplotter which are much of a muchness, providing you're looking at the 3rd generation ones.

I shall still be using my Garmin 35 feeding the Navico plotter, but the 14-year old Garmin 65 has finally died.

 

[trouville]

you wouldent be selling your GPS would you? I wonder is there anyway i can use some C-Map s ive got for planing with my PC ?

 

[BrendanS]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

a bit of confusion here. Your original statemtent was about unlocking new regions from the CD, not about how many PC's (or garmin units) you can have that unlocked area downloaded to. That is a very different subject.

The authorative text is here
http://shop.garmin.com/cartography/mapsource/policy.asp

You can unlock any region on the CD by paying for it. You can download to another pc by using the same unlock key. You can only use the unlock key for that area for two Garmin GPS or plotters, but they must both belong to you.

 

[Oldhand]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

I have just invested in C-Map NT+ cartography both on CD and cartridge and I am very disappointed. Compared with raster charts I have been using with MaxSea, C-Map NT+ lack vital detail in some areas, such as drying heights at harbour entrances and no indication as to where channels might be in drying waters. I also find it very worrying that C-Map informs me that my nearest marina is a different one 0.6 miles away and the one I am actually in is the second nearest at 1.3 miles away. Totally untrustworthy IMHO. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[frilaens]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

I am confusing the texts I read when I bought my CD. I paid a sum and read somewhere that I was allowed to unlock another region for a reduced sum and this could happen only once. I interpreted this as being linked to the way of licensing the CD. However, it would appear that the "reduced" price is simply the price of an unlock code. I think part of my confusion is that I was reading it on the Norwegian importers web site, and not Garmins.

 

[ditchcrawler]

Re: It\'s a bit like computers...

I looked at the charts like you & plumped for navionics gold XL3.I bought the Raymarine RC400 which works as a hand held in the cockpit & in a bracket connected to 12v main batteries inside(I have an inside wheel as well as normal tiller)Although the screen is 3.5 ins it suits my purposes well as I take it on other boats.The prices are alot less than quoted in PBO,s recent test.I paid circa £440 for mine but you can get them for £425.I think PBO should put realistic prices in their tests as the prices they quote must be manufacturers recommended prices.They are generally very high.