Which "breathable" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

[trouville]

Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

Yesterday i went for a sail,and was freezing!!!I dident take a jacket with me as its an old non breathable Musto,and i only ever wear it when it rains.

This year i will be sailing in the north,so perhaps ill need a jacket i can wear often,while sailing and while shopping???

I got out a catalog and found Jackets. The new breathable Musto, Gill and "marine pool"--never heard of that? are all so expensive they can only be bought with a mortgage and repaid over 30 years!!

Then there are all the others costing between £70 and £110 for me that is expensive!

The question is "Do i really need to buy one"???

I have my old musto,which bought in 1988 has hardly been used,i also have a walm jacket which isent really water proof just light spray proof will these do,or would i be better buying one jacket i can wear all spring/summer.

What do i need? and is breathable really dry on a walm summers day (50F or 17c) when its raining,or will i get to hot??

Compass do a jacket which is "5 in 1" ?? Jacket, furry jacket? furry vest? jacket with vest? Water and wind proof and active breathing????????????????
And made from nylon and polyester???

Which if any jacket should i look at for spring/summer coastal crusing Island hopping???

 

[stevebrassett]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

Personally, I wouldn't buy a jacket that wasn't breathable - I can remember the old Peter Storm cagoules that left you wetter from perspiration than you would get from the rain! Having said that, I have bought, and used a perfectly acceptable lightweight breathable jacket from Millets for under £ 20. I've only used it for walking, mind.

 

[Sailfree]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

I initially bought a cheap brand of breathable jacket and it was fine until I was caught off France beating into a storm for 16 hours. It was in our early years of sailing and SWMBO was terrified and froze in her seat insisting I stayed at the helm all the time. Realising it could be make or break time in our sailing together life I was at the helm for some 16hrs (Guernsey to Cherbourg and missed the tide so went backwards). While in July and overnight I was soaked right through as the constant spray and humidity prevented the evapouration of perspiration. I ended up wet and very cold. The cold can seriously affect you judgement and lead to mistakes. On that occassion I should have turned back immediately I realised we would miss the tidal gate but inexperience was probably more responsible for that lack of good judgement than the cold.

While never planning to do it again (put it down to inexperience and SWMBO is more confident now) I realise we can all be caught out and considered staying dry and warm could be as important a safety feature as wearing a life jacket. We went out and bought the full three layer system from Musto. I am sure others are equally as good but as with everything in life you mostly get what you pay for! We sail through the winter and can only say it works (expensive yes!). I also later attended a blue water lecture which also had a talk on clothing and now appreciate the technology that goes into the layers of the fabrics.

I believe it comes down to how much you can afford to how much you think you may be caught out in bad weather. I have the greatest respect for the effect that the cold can make on exercising good judgement (including such simple things as riding a motorcycle!)

If cost is a major factor there are shops which sell only 2nds and end of range, also bargains to be had at boat jumbles and boat shows.

Happy warm, dry, safe sailing to you all.

 

[scarlett]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

I have a North Face Gortex jacket bought for £20 in China. I assume it is genuine as you can breathe through the Gortex. BUT it breathes best when it is not raining. I conclude that when you need the breathablity most, the high humidity outside means that transfer becomes less efficient.

 

[Sybarite]

Re: Boat design rather than jacket design..??

Given the amount of rain which happens why does boat design not take account of this? Do people really enjoy sitting out and getting cold and wet? Spray hoods are just that; they protect you from spray but not from rain if you are helming. Is it just a question of fashion inspired by AWBs?

I would certainly be interested in a boat with a solid cuddy such as found in the Salar 40, Atlantic 40, Amel Sharki/Maramu, Trintella 42 etc. Not only do they provide shelter which is in itself a safety feature as they reduce fatigue but they also reduce the risk of the helmsman being carried overboard by breaking waves in survival conditions.

Then it doesn't really matter what you have as wet weather wear for the odd trip around the deck. Cheap oilies (which incidentally fishermen use and they are out in all seasons) would be fine. Think costs multiplied by the number of crew...

When the weather is the worst you really cannot rely on an autoplilot especially if you need to react quickly to a situation and you need therefore to be at the helm. I remember one night in a very heavy thunder storm a freighter appearing out of nowhere. I doubt if I could have got to the pilot in time had I been sitting under a sprayhood.

John

 

[mirabriani]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

Some one on the forum gave me details of a supplier for JAGG
breathable suit for about £130 which appears to be very good
I will look for more details

Regards Briani

 

[webcraft]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

I bought Musto MPX inshore breathables several years ago and have done maybe 6000 miles in them. They have (with sufficient thermals etc on underneath) allowed me to sit at the helm for up to eight hours in the p***ing rain without getting wet and uncomfortable, while allowing me to leap around reefing etc without getting wet from the inside. Brilliant vfm IMHO.

However . . . Musto's MPX (and other cheaper breathables) use a coating on the fabric rather than an actual Goretex membrane, and it definitely dies not last as long as true Goretex (or HPX). The last two seasons the jacket in particular has become much less waterproof - now down to 'heavy showerproof' even after washing and reproofing with the approved substances and in the approved way.

Have just bought a second hand but barely used Henri LLoyd Goretex Ocean Technology jacket from Ebay - this should be good for another 10,000 miles wet and horrible at least. In my view the crew are the single most important piece of safety equipment on the boat, and should be treated as such. Wet cold people make stupid decisions and boats are lost or damaged, holidays ruined and SWMBOs put off sailing forever.

In the light of the adequacy but (relatively) short life of the Musto Inshore gear I would say spend as much as you can afford, go for Offshore or Ocean (proper Goretex or the equivalent Musto HPX, not MPX which is a coating). But no, good breathable gear is not a waste of money - unless of course you are just going to use it for posing around the quayside, in which case buy the cheapest (Inshore) gear because they all look the same even from quite close up.

- Nick

 

[Guest]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

I have two sets of jacket and trousers, one GoreTex (Henri Lloyd) the other not (Musto) both of which I use on a regular basis. Both are offshore specification, ie. a similar weight and quality, but the HL one costs several times more because it's GoreTex.

I choose the one that I'm to use according to the circumstances. Generally I use the HL/GoreTex one in summer, when there is less spray flying around, and it's warmer. I switch to the Musto one in winter.

The reason? The Musto one is noticeably warmer - because the wind does not go through it. Obviously this is the whole point of breathable, to let the wind go through it, so it breathes. The Musto one acts rather more like a sauna, keeping you nice and warm inside when there is a cutting wind.

The downside of the sauna effect is obviously dampness when you take your jacket off you can suffer from wind chill. Strangely however, I have noticed little difference between the two except in the heat of summer, so I am happy to wear my (non-GoreTex) Musto for long periods without getting noticeably damp. The reason for this is, I think, that when yachting you are spending long hours not doing heavy physical activity, so not sweating, and there is usually enough breeze around to give natural ventilation.

BTW, my GoreTex one gets damp inside when subjected to rain/spray over a long period. I know that it should not, but it does. This may be a defect with the GoreTex used in my particular jacket, I don't know. But for summer use I would rate it as more comfortable than the non-GoreTex one.

So my conclusion has been that GoreTex is of limited advantage at sea, and if I had to choose one jacket, I would go with the non-GoreTex one, even if they cost the same. This is a big contrast to hill-walking where GoreTex is invaluable - I wouldn't be without a GoreTex jacket in the mountains, where one is doing heavy physical exercise. On the other hand, if I were to be spending many weeks at a time in my oilies, then probably a top-of-the-range GoreTex one might fit the ticket, if I could afford one.

 

[StugeronSteve]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

I've used an XM ocean suit (£300) for two winters and one summer. Keeps me warm and dry in winter and doesn't seem to hold the sweat on the warmer days.

So far so good.

 

[Guest]

Another thing about keeping warm -

- the limiting factor as to how warm your clothing can be is the thickness of the material on your arms - there are only so many jumpers you can put on before becoming like the Michelin man and unable to bend your arms.

The solution is obvious: sleeveless bodywarmers. I use a Musto fleece one. Even better than this, and I can't recommend it highly enough for winter sailing, are their (probably other firms do equivalents too) polar fleece trousers that come up to chest level. They make a huge difference in cold weather.

Also get waterproofs that are two or three sizes too big - the bigger they are, the more warm clothes you can get on underneath. The head and neck area have to be especially large: you must be able to ZIP UP THE NECK, and put on the various anti-spray flaps around the face WHILE WEARING THE COLLARS ASSOCIATED WITH SEVERAL JUMPERS/POLAR FLEECES, AND PREFERABLY THE ABILITY TO PUT A SCARF ROUND YOUR NECK, AND ALSO (ABSOLUTELY VITAL) A WOOLLY HAT OVER YOUR HEAD AND HAVE THE HOOD OF THE WATERPROOFS OVER THE TOP OF THE WOOLLY HAT, without strangling yourself. To do this requires waterproofs that are really BIG. Some manufacturers design their waterproofs with wider necks, more capacious hoods and more spacious sleeves than others - go for the design with the most generous cut.

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

I bought a breathable etc etc jacket that is made from Entrant G11, which is another Gortex type material.
The bonus was that it's actually a snow-boarding jacket but looks just like a sailing coat with all the pockets, flaps, hood, sleeve cuffs, and things you would expect. It came in yellow with kevlar reinforcing patches, which is just ideal for sailing, (especially if you have a yellow hull!),
Because snow-boarders get bored with last seasons colours so quickly it was reduced from £180 to £20
So look around the trendy snow boarding shops. Now would be an ideal time.

 

[Talbot]

Re: Boat design rather than jacket design..??

Agree totally with you, and if you look at my avatar, you can see why I have frequently been wearing a fleece jacket when all around me people were totally covered in wet oilies and looking miserable. Perhaps it is some machismo need to be miserable, but I certainly dont understand it.


Somebody else talked about the Jag Suit a nice enough outfit, but doesnt have an integral harness - shame as I love their wet suits.

 

[trouville]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

Thanks for all the posts.Given the state of my finances,and haveing read all your posts.
Im going to take my old and almost unused musto offshore with me,When i used it it always kept me walm and very dry,a bit damp inside, but the pockets with the hand walmer in did get very wet from my wet hands.But that was all.

The reason it hasent been used, was i a bought a Hillyard shortly after and sold my wet old East Anglian!

The hillyard has a roof to protect the driver,and in winter the walmth coming up from the Reflex cabin heater made it seem luxurious in comparision, then i went to France and have been in the med ever since! when i wore my musto there, it was far to hot,and really did get damp inside

Now i see simonCr is from Poland! This will be my new sailing area(the meds full) and so during may and september,the walmth will be nice and during the summer?I can wear my old jacket and see how it is.

I dose sound as i shouldent buy cheaper as the "coating"will wear off and or the wind,when it picks up, will go through breathable pours.

Eventually i do want a pray hood on my new Folkboat(1946) back to the tirany of a tiller!and now no head room. most if not all my sailing will be day coastal i hope!

Ill also look out for that link to Jagg! afterall next year i may be able to afford and want a new jacket??

One last point the musto trousers, there great but i almost never used those even when i was soaked (in summer in the north,maldon ) as they feel like getting into and walking around in a deep sea diving suit!

Are there light non breathable modern ones now or are they just as hard to get in to still?

coming back and reading simonCr last post has me wondering if the full med is not a better place to stay!!Im alergic to cold,i comeout in small bumps !!!

"extra large" to be able to wear"multiple"!!!!pullovers?????AND a body walmer UNDER fleece lined trousers?? Perhaps ill come to Poland by ferry! in fact i will be leaving my Folkboat somewher? and going to Poland as a tourist for a week. at least thats whats planed?? Lets hope the snows gone and the ice receaded by august???

 

[Dave99]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

XM offshore suit is excellent value for money - Musto and Gill are quite expensive but are good. Henri L. - has gone down hill I beleive.

 

[CliveG]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

I too have a XM Ocean suit.

Mine is 5 years old.
I use the Salopetes most of the time when sailing, even in our Enterprise dinghy.
After a hard days sailing whilst sitting a a wet side deck i don't get a wet rear end.

The only time I have been wet in the suit was on my Coastal skipper course (F8/9 in the Solant) when I forgot to wear my peaked cap under the hood of the jacket and we took a few green ones over the bow. One managed to get down my neck.

I would strongly recommend a set.

 

[Guest]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

[ QUOTE ]
coming back and reading simonCr last post has me wondering if the full med is not a better place to stay!!Im alergic to cold,i comeout in small bumps !!!

"extra large" to be able to wear"multiple"!!!!pullovers?????AND a body walmer UNDER fleece lined trousers?? Perhaps ill come to Poland by ferry! in fact i will be leaving my Folkboat somewher? and going to Poland as a tourist for a week. at least thats whats planed?? Lets hope the snows gone and the ice receaded by august???

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry, it's a lovely warm sunny day in Poland today /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I haven't tried winter sailing in the Baltic - would need an ice-breaker on the bows! I more had in mind with all those jumpers winter sailing in the UK. Sitting in the cockpit for hours on end can (obviously) be a chilly experience anywhere, and I think it's better to exaggerate with the warmth of one's clothing and be toasty than doing the opposite. Also, I think that it helps psychologically to know that you have the ability to put on extra clothing, even if you don't do it - that cosy feeling that you have something in reserve. Russians have a saying to the effect that there is no such thing as cold weather, just inadequate clothing /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sailing in the Baltic in summer is usually a reasonably warm experience, except at the beginning and end of the season - but the season is considerably shorter than the UK

 

[ubuysa]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously this is the whole point of breathable, to let the wind go through it, so it breathes.

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm....I could be (and probably am) wrong here, but my understanding is that a "breathable" material doesn't necessarily let the wind through. A "breathable" material is one that allows sweat (which is a vapour) out but doesn't allow rain (which is a liquid) in. Water vapour molecules are (apparently) much smaller than liquid water molecules. It's got little to do with the wind blowing through.

Or am I wrong (again)????

Tony C.

 

[Guest]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

I'm not a scientist, but I believe that the vapour is borne on the air - the point of the material 'breathing' is that in effect it is letting damp air out, but won't let water that has formed into droplets through. When I say that the wind passes through, I should perhaps say instead 'air', because the GoreTex will act as a barrier to most of the wind, but not all of it.

For example, I have a Gore-Tex 'bivvy bag' for use in the hills - a kind of waterproof bag that zips up so there is no exit hole at all for water to get through (except between the teeth of the zip). It is used to sleep in instead of a tent. When I am zipped up inside it on a breezy day, I can very distinctly feel on the backs of my fingers a gentle flow of air passing through the material.

 

[Stemar]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

I've got the Compass offshore "Professional" set. It's breathable, though not as good as gortex, but cost about £220 as I recall for the jacket, body warmer and salopette.

It's kept me dry in some pretty foul weather - including RTI last year (F6, p!ss!ng rain on a 20 footer with no spray hood) If I have a criticism, it's a bit heavy. I've had it for 3 years now, and it still seems to do the job.

IMHO, most problems with breathable kit come from wearing the wrong things underneath. To do the job properly, you need breathable from the skin out, and not absorbant (eg cotton), which tends to become clammy.

 

[trouville]

Re: Which \"breathable\" Jacket ,Why breathable?????

Thats great real coments about jackets which id begun to think were becoming caught up in the marketing/fashion.

I did wonder about a snowboarder jacket,my daughters always changing hers twice this year! and they really do look good and are breathable as its hard work snowboarding?

SimonCr would you know where the ferries to Poland leave from Sweden or Finnland? any idea how long the journy is? and what it costs very roughly as i havent a clue!!

In poland apart from sausage and bier!!! is there anything that i must buy for sailing????Though i cant think of anything i will need?? And will i be able to be a tourist for a week? or have prices with the Euro skyrocketed???

Dare i ask if there is anything to see in Poland!!!!AH i should ask which of the many things to see should i first visit??