Which boat

[nicho]

I,m just about to order a new boat at the Show, and after a lot of research, had decided on the new Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 32. However, I have just found out about the Legend range, and in particular the 326, built at Portland in the new Luhrs Marine factory. I'm new to sailing boats after many years of motor cruisers. We are definitely cruisers only, racing is not on the agenda, and will never(hopefully) be out in anything other than an F3/F4. Both these boats are of the same length (31'7" with beam of 9'10") They both have 6'4" headroom which is important for my height, and both have good interior volume. Our cruising grounds will initially be Solent based, but after a couple of years of experience hope to go further (West Country, Cherbourg, C.I. etc). I would be grateful to hear from anyone who has experience of these boats, and in particular comments on the Legend's build quality etc etc. I am aware of each boats standard inventory, and specced up similarly for our needs they are both around the £58K mark. Please don't tell me I'm wasting money buying new (we have only ever bought new), or that what I really need is an old Moody or similar. It will be one of these boats, and your help/experience would be appreciated to help decide which one

 

[vyv_cox]

Maximum force 3-4

If this is really your intention, I respectfully suggest that you forget about yachts and go back to motor cruisers. The number of days when you can guarantee that the wind will not exceed this figure is very small indeed. Outside the height of summer you can almost guarantee changeable conditions. Even on a perfect summer's day the sea breeze is very likely to stray into a F5 or more.

Your intended cruising grounds are renowned for fresh breezes. Don't go into this large transaction with your eyes half closed - it WILL blow more than a Force 4 most times you go out, sometimes a lot more. Not trying to put you off in the slightest, just to make you aware.

 

[AndrewB]

Get a test sail.

Even if you are new to sailing yachts, you get a gut feel about a boat from sailing it, that seeing it in a show doesn't give. You ought to be able to arrange this for both boats at the show without losing your entitlement to any boat show discount.

I've not sailed either yacht, but I have sailed others in both Sun Odyssey and the Legend ranges around that size, and on that basis I'd opt for the Sun Odyssey. But that's strictly a personal preference, based on how they handle under sail. Objectively there is very little between them.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I'm not a fan of either of these ranges of boats, for reasons too complex to go into here (do a search on Benjenbav if you want to know more!) but there are at least two things to think about in making this comparison.

1. In a recent boat test Hunter Legend refused to give the publishers essential stability information about the boat being tested. Draw your own conclusion.

2. Hunter Legend is just about the only boat in mass manufacture which uses the 'Bergstrom' rig. In this rig, the forestay and shrouds triangulate the mast support in such a way that a backstay is unnecessary. While this works well in engineering terms it does mean that it is difficult to get the forestay really tight (which is a major disadvantage when beating, even into a F4); and it means that the mainsail cannot be squared well off when running (which can increase the risk of an accidental gybe).

BTW, Vyv is absolutely right about winds. If you wanted not to sail in more than a f4, there are very few weekend days this summer when you'd have gone out.

 

[nicho]

Re: Maximum force 3-4

Thanks for the comments, which I fully understand - I know the Solent and it's idiosyncracies very well having had a 40' motor cruiser based there for many years. I guess I did not make myself clear in that I should have said that I would not venture out in the early stages in anything forecast above F3/F4 - this will of course vary greatly as you suggest, and something I have experienced many times!. The boat will only be used for cruising, and I am attending Southern Sailing school for a week from this Sunday, and again next year befrore the boat arrives. I have sailed many a dinghy in the rather distant past, and am assured the basic principle never leaves you totally, (like riding a bike).. I shall also have a professional tutor with me once the boat arrives for as long as it takes until I'm proficient enough to fly solo. In our marina (Hythe), there are many experienced skippers who seem to wait until a Force 5 is forecast before they go out, and maybe one day I'll do the same - but not for some years I suspect. For sure, I will not be going back to motor cruisers. Anyway, thanks for your comments

 

[jimi]

Backstayless rig

In addition, the main reason for the lack of backstays is so that a main with a high roach can be used, requires battens. But most of them are in mast reefing thus defeating the object!

Jim

 

[Twister_Ken]

Bavarias are selling by the bucketload...

...so maybe they are doing something right?

Have you considered a Bav in the same size range?

 

[nicho]

Thanks Ken, just the sort of info I'm looking for - pls see my reply to another poster ref the F3/4 bit

 

[Plum]

Re: Maximum force 3-4

I completely agree. I used to own a motor cruiser and our top comfortable wind strength was F4 so always aimed at F3 to 4. This meant that we very often never went out or were always woried about getting back. My current boat gives me a comfort limit of F6 and now I can get out more and worry a lot less.

So, my advice is to aim for a higher comfort wind strength and check that the boats you are looking at will be suitable. If they are both suitable, then pick the one that has the best looks!

 

[nicho]

Re: Maximum force 3-4

Thanks Plum, at least someone else has successfully made the transition!

 

[nicho]

Re: Bavarias are selling by the bucketload...

Ken - to be honest I havn't mainly because the 32 is actually 34' long. However, I'm beginning to think I ought to cast the net wider and take a couple of days at the Show to look at one or two others, and only finally decide after a test sail

 

[Plum]

Re: Maximum force 3-4

Oh yes, and would never go back. I hope you get as much enjoyment out of your new boat as I have. Good luck!

 

[tcm]

Re: legend

Good thing about the legend is of course the comfy internal fitout. If this is what it takes to get the wife to come along, and you don't much give a toss about sailing performance, have the legend. Indeed, someone told me that the sure way to encourage other half to come along is to have a boat that is comfier/nicer than the house. So the rag and bone man will need to make several journeys to your house if you get a bavaria, fewer with a legend.

 

[Guest]

Re: Bavarias are selling by the bucketload...

JeremyF has a nice shiny Bav34 and will give you some honest views on them. For what youn want you might be better off with a Bav, having said that I have a Legend 38footer near me and the owner is master mariner, he has been known to go out when I have decided to open a bottle instead!!!!

good luck and enjoy

Pete

 

[ROSSCO]

Re: Bavarias are selling by the bucketload...

I have a Bavaria 31 just over a year old with very full spec. Sounds like just what u need ...and oh by the way she is for sale - would save u a bit on the new price !

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by ROSSCO on 16/08/2002 11:43 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Guest]

The Legends are great in that you get a lot of boat (and interior) for your money, but they have some notable drawbacks in terms of:

* Build strength... they are rather lightweight
* Rig... as people have discussed. Not being able to square away the boom when running and the lack of forestay tension control are issues when the wind pipes up a little.
* Layout... the cockpits are rather over-wide. Nice for lounging in port, but not so hot for sailing above F3.

The Sun Odysseys, Bavarias and Dufour Classics would all be better choices in my opinion. People seem to outgrow Legends relatively quickly and the second-hand market for them (especially the smaller ones) is not particularly bouyant.

 

[JeremyF]

Nicho

I chose a Bav34 (35') over the others, because I wanted a traditional layout and resonable sailing performance with easy handling characteristics. It absolutely meets this spec, and is totally predictable up to F6. Beyond that it needs a 3rd reef, which is on my winter list.

The Legend/U.S. Hunter is an extreme of the Jen/Ben trend of interior design - lovely large 'kitchen' and 'bathroom', and very stylish deep-buttoned curved 'sofas' but no chart table, super-wide cockpits and topsides so tall and wide it must suffer in a blow. The Legend is undoubtedly a nicer boat in a marina.

All these new boats will slam badly upwind in stronger winds, and progress is slow and uncomfortable in these conditions.

Have a look at the Bav32, my only concern is that it is very light, and the Jen SO32, somewhat heavier but very French feel below with minimal stowage. The Bav31 was a short-lived model with a narrow beam designed for German? inland waterways requirements.

What ever you choose, enjoy!

Jeremy Flynn

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Maximum force 3-4

Glad you accept them in the spirit they were intended.

Here's some general advice on how to select your dream boat. I assume you are looking at the magazine reports? Some of the values that they present are very useful in giving an idea of the stability and performance of the boats. Perhaps the most useful is displacement/waterline length. Boats with values around 100 tend to be pure racers, or very small. At the other end, 500 would be heavy and would probably not sail in anything less than F4. Somewhere in the middle is a good compromise, but there is not a lot to pick there nowadays, as the mass produced boats are tending to go lower and lower in the interests of performance. Of course, not everyone wants fantastic performance and you probably fall into that cataegory. In any case, my boat rates just about 250 and not many pass me!

Don't be too influenced by the stability curve. This is a good guide to open sea stability but needs a lot of interpretation when it comes to inshore and offshore cruising.

Of your selection I think that the Hunter comes in for most criticism of its rig, stability and appearance. I think its displacement/waterline length is low and I suspect that keeping the rig in perfect tune is probably a regular and quite technical business. Most cruisers swear by the masthead rig, unless they are skilled at rig tuning.

If I was buying a new boat in your price range I would definitely look at Bavaria, as Ken suggests. There are many here in Holland and I know of some that do very adventurous trips. Also, don't ignore Dufour. We were quite tempted by one a couple of years ago. See http://www.dufour-yachts.com/eng/default.htm Perhaps our top selection would be a Compromis, although I think they have now renamed themselves C-Yachts. See http://www.zaadnoordijk.nl/ - perhaps a little more than you want to spend, though.

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Maximum force 3-4

I think you are always wise to sail to your perceived limits
Might i suggest that if you get yourself a an experienced crew and go out in a bit of a blow, it can boost your confidence, in yourself and the boat and will stretch your limits

I have found that it has helped. I am much more confident when i have a more competent crew, it may seem obvious but for me it really does help. removing the nerves is most of the battle in a new situation.
Just a thought
Fair winds.

...It was like that when i found it!

 

[ROSSCO]

Re: bav 31 designed for inland waterways

where do you get your info from bav 31 designed for inland waterways ???? I confess to a vested interest here but the beam is only slightly narrower than a 32 and the keel on the 31 is deeper -1.75 v. 1.5 m making for a faster and more seakindly boat than the 32 - inland boats are usually wider and shallower for obvious reasons.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by ROSSCO on 16/08/2002 16:10 (server time).</FONT></P>