Where to start?

cnancekievill

New member
Joined
16 Jul 2007
Messages
20
Location
Cambridge
Visit site
We're refitting/restoring a classic 33' steel sloop and I want to eventually replace her sails, spars, running rigging and gear (winches, track, etc). However I've never sailed her so I'm not convinced I want to replace everything before I've made a few passages. I might sail her and then find out that her current setup requires some changes I could have made if only I had known. However to get her sailing with her existing sails, mast, etc will take a load of work that will be waisted if I'm then going to replace it all.

Also I don't know which part to replace first. Do I get my mast and boom made and then give the details to the sailmaker? Or should I decide on my suite of sails or running rigging and then my mast? And if I decide to only replace a couple of these parts initially, which should I start with?

Advice gratefully received!
 

roly_voya

New member
Joined
5 Feb 2004
Messages
1,050
Location
Pembrokeshire Wales
Visit site
Go sailing!!!

You are right you cant assess any chainges untill you know the boat so set it up in necassay with some temp fixes and do a good few miles. When planning sail changes it can be worth looking at second hand sails, they might be a bit out of shape but cheep and good enough to confirm if ideas work before commissioning new ones. Then discuss with sailmaker how its best to do things
 

ccscott49

Active member
Joined
7 Sep 2001
Messages
18,583
Visit site
I think I would check out the owners club if there is one, then get a good rigger/sailmaker together and go over things with them.
 

Bajansailor

Well-known member
Joined
27 Dec 2004
Messages
6,495
Location
Marine Surveyor in Barbados
Visit site
Could you perhaps post a photo or two, or tell us what make / type of steel boat she is?

And what type of mast / boom you have - am guessing maybe it is timber (?) or is it aluminium?

I think I would want to try and salvage as much as possible - and to do that you need to test it out.

If the mast looks like it wont collapse in a heap if you step it, then it could be worth testing it. You dont mention replacing the standing rigging, only the running rigging - are the shrouds / stays in good condition?

I am assuming that the mast is un-stepped at the moment, hence most of the work involved will be in stepping it and setting up the rigging - shouldnt take too long to get the sails bent on.
You might get a pleasant surprise, and find that they set much better than you expected!
 

Athene V30

Active member
Joined
20 Sep 2001
Messages
5,451
Location
Playa del Ingles, Gran Canaria in Winter, the boat
Visit site
I'm with Roly-Voya on this - go sailing and find out if it is what you want or not and then make changes from there.

When I bought my current boat (not a classic but not a mass production either) she was in a mess. Spent a few week s making things safe then a season afloat seeing what I liked and what I didn't. Now 4 years later I do have new sails, changes some exterior fittings etc and they are where I want them. Next challenge is updating the interior!

Good Luck!
 

cnancekievill

New member
Joined
16 Jul 2007
Messages
20
Location
Cambridge
Visit site
She is a long keel Van de Staadt from 1958. She's a one off so there's no owners club to help! You can find a picture here:

http://www.alexandcatherine.dsl.pipex.com/weddinglist.htm

We've got a year's worth of work still to do to put the interior back (there's no water, electrical or waste system and no companion way steps atm). So we can't go sailing until next season anyway :-(.

The mast is quite a lot of work to restore, it's not just stepping and rigging as at least one of the sheaves has split, the winches are old and seized and the holes for the pin at the base are distorted. Still, the sails don't look to bad in that picture and the standing rigging is ok. I wanted to put in a furling headsail and fully battended main but I could replace the mast and boom and then do the sails the next year. (Aluminum mast atm, but I'm thinking of replacing it with a wooden one)

Mind you, if I replace the mast I'll have to replace the track which means a decision on whether to have cars or sliders, which then might not work with our current main. You see, I keep going round in circles!
 

Colvic Watson

Well-known member
Joined
23 Nov 2004
Messages
10,891
Location
Norfolk
Visit site
Lovely looking boat and a great idea for the wedding list! Might be worth employing a rigger to check the stays and mast before you go sailing, if the rigging has been neglected there could be crevice corrosion in the swagged ends etc; the loads on a 38 footers rig will be huge. But very best of luck, she is going to look drop dead gorgeous on the water!
 

Sequoiah1

New member
Joined
30 Jan 2007
Messages
530
Location
Devon
Visit site
I think you need to go sailing with the rig as is but dont get into any hard trips just take it easy with what you have got.
If you are looking at replacing spars and sails then you need to consult with both suppliers when making your choices.

Why a fully battened main, extra weight and cost for a not hugely appreciable increase in performance.
I would suggest a conventional main with perhaps a slight increased roach at the top and two small full battens at the head to support the sail.

Without sailing the boat you cannot make any decisioins about how to improve the rig and sails. Or you have to jump in with both feet and do the whole lot in one go.
 

cnancekievill

New member
Joined
16 Jul 2007
Messages
20
Location
Cambridge
Visit site
I'm not so bothered about performance, I'd like the fully battened main for ease of dropping with lazy jacks, especially as I'd like to sail single handed and we will mostly be sailing with just the two of us. I was reading some previous postings on the subject and they seemed to concluded that the extra cost was worth it.
 

Blueboatman

Well-known member
Joined
10 Jul 2005
Messages
14,003
Visit site
I certainly wouldn't replace a restorable alloy mast with a new wooden one.
The winches will probably unseize or can be replaced with more modern variants,ditto the pulleys and pins,though you may have to get an expert to weld on a couple of cheekplates at the base if necessary...
As said,check the standing rigging and especially check the turnbuckles if they are of the 'closed' pattern as there is every possibility of crevice corrosion there if they are stainless steel.Replacing them would not necessarily be wasted work as they can be used on any new rigging! I would get your friendly local rigger to give it the once over,make sure the masthead light works and splash the boat for a season as is..

Lovely shape,reminds me of certain Morgan Giles and Laurence Giles designs and with that long keel and steel ,this boat will take you anywhere !
 

William_H

Well-known member
Joined
28 Jul 2003
Messages
14,064
Location
West Australia
Visit site
The standing rigging wire is probably well worth replacing before you do anything else as it is liable to failure based purely on age. It cannot be usefully inspected to determine condition. If you don't want to do it all just replace the side stays both cap and intermadiate. In my experience it is the wire itself that is most prone to failure.

An aluminium mat will be far better and less maintenance than a wooden one. Sheeves and pins are a commony needed replacement.

The only reason to abandon the aluminium mast is from corrosion and then only if it is really bad. It can be treated but it would be worth removing spreaders to check for their condition and that of the mast underneath.

IMHO there is much more work worth doing than fitting roller reefing and lazy jacks. (after 25 years with my boat I have neither) I would strongly suggest that you get in lots of sailing with crew helpers before you consider going single handed.

You mention sliders or cars for the mainsail. There is nothing wrong with just the bolt rope of the main into the mast track if it will fit. You can then get some experience and decide what you really want.

I think you will get a lot more pleasure out of approaching the whole project slowly and after a bt of sailing.

However the biggest single failure point is yourself. sailing is all " crisis management" you have to be prepeared to learn the hard way and enjoy the drama. Wives however don't always see it that way. So for initial sails with wife be very cautious only in good weather andf try to encourage her to steer from the begining. It really needs to be a joint adventure and wives can be easily put of in the begining by excessive adventure.
Beware especially as the new skipper will often when he gets into a bad situation will yell at the crew hoping they can perform a miracle to get him out of it. That is why you have wife do the helming while you do all the difficult work. ie changing sails, fending offetc...

Good luck but take it carefully olewill
 

cnancekievill

New member
Joined
16 Jul 2007
Messages
20
Location
Cambridge
Visit site
Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely be checking the standing rigging but as it is only about 6 years old I think it will be ok. I'll re-consider keeping the mast, I'd like to get it checked out for corrosion because I'm not happy with a few areas, especially around the spreader connections.

As for the advice about "the wife", well as I am the wife and skipper what I really need to worry about is "the husband" /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

He's going on a comp crew course in a few weeks so hopefully at least he'll be able to steer straight when he's finished! I'm going along for the ride and to brush up my skills, can't wait to be on the water again after all this sanding!
 

Oen

New member
Joined
21 Mar 2006
Messages
753
Visit site
Serious piece of advice...

Save a lot of money by buying what you need from somewhere other than Fox's!!!
 

Stemar

Well-known member
Joined
12 Sep 2001
Messages
24,121
Location
Home - Southampton, Boat - Gosport
Visit site
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like the fully battened main for ease of dropping with lazy jacks, especially as I'd like to sail single handed and we will mostly be sailing with just the two of us.

[/ QUOTE ]Admittedly. Jissel, at 24ft is a completely different beast, but my short battened main drops fine into my lazyjacks. I have to do everything at the mast, but if I had my lines led to the cockpit, a downhaul to the head of the main would ensure it came down fine.

Fully battened mains do have advantages, but they are also a lot harder to depower, as they tend to keep driving when a standard one just flogs. to my mind, this isn't a safety feature when short handed and you're suddenly overpowered in a gust!
 
Top