Where to start - new to sailing

[Hilts86]

Hi All,

Hopefully I am in the correct place, if not apologies...If I am, take it easy on me

I am completely new to sailing, I had planned to start a number of years ago but never got further than phoning a sailing club and online browsing due to other financial commitments and life/work being a bit to busy to commit, now I am in a position to make a dream, reality. What I really need is some direction or advice of where to start and with who? Online seems to be a bit of a minefield and I can't really get a definitive do this or do that. I appreciate it isn't a cut and dry do this, do that scenario but advice would be really appreciated and if my plan is sensible and achievable.

Background - I am in my early 30's, based in Lancashire and self employed, when I left school I was a vehicle technician for 5-6 years and my main hobbies are fell walking/wildcamping(Lake District), golf and generally keeping fit. I tend to be a quick learner and feel some of the jobs/hobbies I have or have had over the years will transfer into certain areas of sailing but I know I will have a mass amount of information to digest and skills to learn and develop over months/years but I am willing to put the time and effort in to achieve my short to long term goals. I have been on boats over the years either sea fishing, motor boats or chartered skippers with friends and have always enjoyed being out on the water and I couldn't ever imagine that would change...fortunately sea sickness has never been an issue and I'm not aiming to circumnavigate the world before next summer 2021

Short term (0-12 months) - Learn to sail, I have been educating myself online with regards to terms, technicalities of sailing(tacking/jibbing), boat layout, hull types, keel types and so on. I have been reading through various forums and feel I could learn the classroom side of things quite quickly but I appreciate the only way you truly learn how to sail is by spending multiple hours on the water in various conditions and learning from experienced skippers. I don't know if I want to join a club as competition isn't of interest to me but I appreciate it maybe a must to gain some sailing experience, ideally I would prefer to volunteer on others boats but I imagine opportunities will be limited and my lack of experience an issue. My closest RYA centres are Preston Marina or Bolton Sailing club(inland) and my current plan is to firstly get some sailing experience and then do the RYA Day Skipper course and radio license(I have read online I need a license for radio?).

Short-Medium term(12-24 months) - Crew on others boats and have the relevant skills and courses/licenses to be able to hire a boat to sail in the med on holiday for a week to get a feel for shorthanded sailing(2 of us).

Medium term(24 months +) - Buy a boat(Jeanneau Sun Odyssey/Elan 384 or something along those lines) and exhaust the Mediterranean, use the boat as a holiday home for a number of years with the potential to charter or skipper the boat to others.

Long term(when my skills are where they need to be and the Med is no longer of interest) - Sail from the Med to Caribbean, cruise for a number of months and then sail back or circumnavigate if I wanted to.

I understand all of the above is going to be affected by multiple variables and some people sail for 5 hours, buy a boat and sail the Atlantic within 12 months but for me that sounds dangerous, expensive and unfulfilling as a short term goal. I would prefer to learn how to sail, build on my skills, crew on other boats, take part in the ARC and possibly enjoy closer waters, sail around the UK and in time look at a potential circumnavigation...who knows but the sailing life appeals to me now more than ever.

Is the above achievable? What would be my first point of contact? First course? Does anybody have any opportunities for me to assist on their boats in NW England or N Wales?

Any info or advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Tim Good]

You did right posting here. It is the most active and knowledge internet forum I know of with minimal piss taking and rubbish.

If you're switched on and enjoying learning you'll become proficient very quickly. A lot will be learned by getting a small coastal cruiser. I learned to sail when i was 5. I then raced and crewed until I was 30. Only when i bought a little Beneteau 26 in Dartmouth did my knowledge grow exponentially.

If you're confient and techniclaly capable, don't be shy to consider a small starter boat immediately, while doing some courses or crewing in the mean time.

 

[Hilts86]

You did right posting here. It is the most active and knowledge internet forum I know of with minimal piss taking and rubbish.

If you're switched on and enjoying learning you'll become proficient very quickly. A lot will be learned by getting a small coastal cruiser. I learned to sail when i was 5. I then raced and crewed until I was 30. Only when i bought a little Beneteau 26 in Dartmouth did my knowledge grow exponentially.

If you're confient and techniclaly capable, don't be shy to consider a small starter boat immediately, while doing some courses or crewing in the mean time.

Thank you for the response.

I've toyed with the idea of buying something and mooring it locally but I think I'd be more inclined to buy in Europe and fly out to the boat to sail, main reasons being my location, the north west seems to be very limited sailing wise unless I want to slog out of an estuary and quite expensive for moorings and boats, in comparison to some marina's in Europe and ex charter boats in the Med. I work remotely so being abroad isn't an issue for work and the weather is a bit more of a guarantee then the UK which seems more appealing.

Confidence, that won't be an issue but I'm not one for overseeing safety or skill level as the sea is the boss in my eyes. It is more a case of me taking the correct steps starting out and It feels like the hardest thing is getting into sailing so I am hoping the forum can help me out

 

[LadyInBed]

I googled 'sailing clubs in lancashire' and 'sailing clubs near Liverpool' which brought up quite a few. Not my part of the world, so people with more local knowledge can give you pointers there.
Joining a dinghy sailing club is a good way to get yourself into the ways of the wind and RYA coastal courses will give you a feel for bigger boats.
That run in parallel with classroom/online/book learning will make you more attractive when touting yourself around as a crewing prospect.
A free online site for navigation that I think is quite well presented is Advanced navigation courses - sailing schools Greece and the Greek islands

 

[croc9968]

Hi All,

Hopefully I am in the correct place, if not apologies...If I am, take it easy on me

I am completely new to sailing, I had planned to start a number of years ago but never got further than phoning a sailing club and online browsing due to other financial commitments and life/work being a bit to busy to commit, now I am in a position to make a dream, reality. What I really need is some direction or advice of where to start and with who? Online seems to be a bit of a minefield and I can't really get a definitive do this or do that. I appreciate it isn't a cut and dry do this, do that scenario but advice would be really appreciated and if my plan is sensible and achievable.

Background - I am in my early 30's, based in Lancashire and self employed, when I left school I was a vehicle technician for 5-6 years and my main hobbies are fell walking/wildcamping(Lake District), golf and generally keeping fit. I tend to be a quick learner and feel some of the jobs/hobbies I have or have had over the years will transfer into certain areas of sailing but I know I will have a mass amount of information to digest and skills to learn and develop over months/years but I am willing to put the time and effort in to achieve my short to long term goals. I have been on boats over the years either sea fishing, motor boats or chartered skippers with friends and have always enjoyed being out on the water and I couldn't ever imagine that would change...fortunately sea sickness has never been an issue and I'm not aiming to circumnavigate the world before next summer 2021

Short term (0-12 months) - Learn to sail, I have been educating myself online with regards to terms, technicalities of sailing(tacking/jibbing), boat layout, hull types, keel types and so on. I have been reading through various forums and feel I could learn the classroom side of things quite quickly but I appreciate the only way you truly learn how to sail is by spending multiple hours on the water in various conditions and learning from experienced skippers. I don't know if I want to join a club as competition isn't of interest to me but I appreciate it maybe a must to gain some sailing experience, ideally I would prefer to volunteer on others boats but I imagine opportunities will be limited and my lack of experience an issue. My closest RYA centres are Preston Marina or Bolton Sailing club(inland) and my current plan is to firstly get some sailing experience and then do the RYA Day Skipper course and radio license(I have read online I need a license for radio?).

Short-Medium term(12-24 months) - Crew on others boats and have the relevant skills and courses/licenses to be able to hire a boat to sail in the med on holiday for a week to get a feel for shorthanded sailing(2 of us).

Medium term(24 months +) - Buy a boat(Jeanneau Sun Odyssey/Elan 384 or something along those lines) and exhaust the Mediterranean, use the boat as a holiday home for a number of years with the potential to charter or skipper the boat to others.

Long term(when my skills are where they need to be and the Med is no longer of interest) - Sail from the Med to Caribbean, cruise for a number of months and then sail back or circumnavigate if I wanted to.

I understand all of the above is going to be affected by multiple variables and some people sail for 5 hours, buy a boat and sail the Atlantic within 12 months but for me that sounds dangerous, expensive and unfulfilling as a short term goal. I would prefer to learn how to sail, build on my skills, crew on other boats, take part in the ARC and possibly enjoy closer waters, sail around the UK and in time look at a potential circumnavigation...who knows but the sailing life appeals to me now more than ever.

Is the above achievable? What would be my first point of contact? First course? Does anybody have any opportunities for me to assist on their boats in NW England or N Wales?

Any info or advice would be much appreciated.

I posted something very similar a few weeks ago and got lots of advice......I have no experience as well but I do have a boat.....if you're willing to travel to the North East, I'm happy to have an extra hand to learn with...

 

[RJJ]

It reads to me as an incredibly well-considered plan that errs on the side of caution. Assuming you can devote a handful of weekends plus 2-6 full weeks per year (and assuming you pick it up with reasonable ease and, importantly, enjoyment) this seems achievable.

As you say, many do it more quickly and without mishap; that is not to say without risk but then there are plenty of more experienced folks that make silly mistakes and forget to think things through.

The meta-advice is always be learning, understand there are different ways of doing things, and build experience by knowing and challenging your limits. Many of us would happily set sail in a force 6; that doesn't mean it's advisable to do so if you happen to be a novice skipper, with inexperienced crew, in unfamiliar waters. RYA qualifications are good, but they are not the be-all and end-all (which your instructor would hopefully tell you); in this country we are responsible for our own learning and long may that last.

The micro-advice: do go sailing with different people, on different boats and on different environments. If you are fit, punctual, helpful and turn up with a bottle of wine I shouldn't think it's hard to find somebody to take you sailing. If you offer a hand with maintenance (which is all to the good of experience when you become an owner) people will queue around the block to give you a ride.

Racing and dinghy sailing aren't for everyone but they do provide learning opportunities that yacht cruising may take years to match. The finesse of a well-executed racing tack; sailing fast upwind on the edge of acceptable power; a spinnaker gybe under pressure; sailing a dinghy by the lee and out-of-control with no serious danger; playing follow-the-leader and practising 360s; chucking your dinghy through hundreds of windy gybes on a sixpence (including capsizes) all stand you in good stead as a yacht skipper. Somebody always pipes up here and says "yes, but dinghy sailing doesn't give you your VHF license or teach you liferaft/winching/engine maintenance/flag etiquette"; they are right and they also miss the point. Sailing is a range of skills and you have to take responsibility for acquiring the skills commensurate with your goals.

Best of luck.

 

[langstonelayabout]

Hi and welcome to a great sport.

in short, learn in a dinghy. You will learn more, faster and become a more proficient sailor. Your skills will work on bigger boats but learning on a big boat and going smaller doesn’t always work as well.

don‘t do Day Skipper, etc. Do the RYA’s dinghy courses up to level 3 and you’ll then be able to sail and crew proficiently. Adult beginners' courses | Dinghy, Multihull & Small Keelboats | Courses | Courses & Training | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

Enjoy your sailing!

 

[RupertW]

Good plan. I don’t go with the dinghy brigade as they are different skills. It will do no harm but unless you are planning to race then I think it’s a distraction.
My wife and I are both self employed and ten years ago we bought an ex charter boat in the Med and it has been time consuming but excellent fun.

We found we got far more out of sailing by taking a week at a time than we ever did by all our weekends on our boats in the UK. Our pattern varies with work commitments from 4 individual weeks in season plus a couple of long weekend maintenance visits to 2 6 week trips plus 4 maintenance visits last year.

In normal times we found a plane and taxi to the boat in Greece or Croatia or wherever was the almost the same door to as our drive from London to Poole or Plymouth and often cheaper.

Loads of different opinions but UK sailors have very different needs and ideal boat types to warm water sailing. In the Med you will be stepping off the back of your boat to your dinghy/quay/swim and the cockpit will be dining room and living room, so down below you want cool darkness and lots of cabins for guests and for storage and that lovely big saloon table and seats will be wasted.

Its all about lots of freshwater showers, big holding tanks and solar to keep you self sufficient in idyllic bays, and a space for home office to keep customers happy if that’s possible for you to do.

And in between slowly learn to sail in light winds and howling gales - often on the same day with nothing in between.

 

[jac]

Welcome to the forum and to the sport!

Your approach looks very sensible and eminently doable. Many do it in far less time.

You've really got three key areas to learn about.
1) The theory - how to navigate, rules of the road, weather etc. Online courses / books are a great way of doing that but you will also learn by doing.
2) How to actually sail - you can learn on a sailing practical, either in a yacht or a dinghy. Many will say that you learn how to sail better in a dinghy as you get wet if you get it wrong and the feedback is more direct between action and reaction
3) How to manage a boat - that includes maintenance, leading crew, how to live onboard together with things like how to moor, anchor etc. You can only do that on a yacht ( or i suppose a motorboat to some extent as these cross over)

Lots to be said for getting a broad base of experience to start with as that will help you work out what you like the most so with that in mind my suggestion would be:

1) Do some of the RYA introduction to sailing courses - either on a yacht or in a dinghy and do the theory course online.
2) Buy yourself something small and cheap and local and play with it in safe local waters. Cheap dinghy inland can be good for gaining confidence and if it's only a couple of hundred you won;t cry when you break it. You'll probably need to join a local dinghy club to do this
3) As your ambition is yachts - Join a local club that encourages crew members and seek others to sail with. As above - stand your round, bring a bottle of something nice and you'll never want for a berth!
4) As time / funds allow do Day Skipper practical - The RYA assume theory knowledge and at least a week onboard before you start. I would suggest a little more.
5) Carry on trying to get more experience in different boats - including a proper charter where you intend to keep your own boat
6) Buy own "proper" boat

You don't mention if you have a significant other and their thoughts. if they are keen - get them to join you on this - otherwise maybe booking things like beach club holidays where loads of dinghies avakilable then maybe a flotilla where you can tempt them in with talk of crystal water and cocktails and if it goes wrong you're just lost a holiday!!

 

[Skylark]

Hello and welcome, Hilts86.

That's a very thoughtful and considered first post. I wouldn't worry too much about your medium to longer terms plans as, without a doubt, they'll change based upon how you meet your short to medium term goals. Those sound perfectly reasonable.

I'd endorse the sage advice offered by RJJ except I'm probably more of a fan of RYA courses (but then I'm a Shorebased and a Cruising Instructor).

I don't know Bolton Sailing Club but an inland Level 2 dinghy course would not be a bad start. Depending where you are in Lancashire there are other inland clubs. East Manchester has one run by the council and they regularly run courses.

You'll learn a lot from a dinghy but I'd recommend that you get on a cruising boat as soon as possible thereafter. Your three options are (1) to become a tart and offer yourself as available at all near sailing clubs , (2) enroll on RYA courses, (3) buy a boat. Another option maybe to volunteer as delivery crew but by this time you probably will not have enough experience. This is a good route to building miles but not necessarily improving skills.

North Wales has a number of sailing clubs. They are probably worth a visit. Ask permission and pin a notice to their board outlining your situation and an offer to crew. If you are north Lancashire, it may be worth doing the same to a few sailing clubs within The Clyde, too.

Good luck (and, please, sell the golf clubs )

 

[Hilts86]

I posted something very similar a few weeks ago and got lots of advice......I have no experience as well but I do have a boat.....if you're willing to travel to the North East, I'm happy to have an extra hand to learn with...

Thank you for the offer, much appreciated, every chance I’ll be in touch once lockdown is over and normality resumes.

 

[Tim Good]

Thank you for the response.

I've toyed with the idea of buying something and mooring it locally but I think I'd be more inclined to buy in Europe and fly out to the boat to sail, main reasons being my location, the north west seems to be very limited sailing wise unless I want to slog out of an estuary and quite expensive for moorings and boats, in comparison to some marina's in Europe and ex charter boats in the Med. I work remotely so being abroad isn't an issue for work and the weather is a bit more of a guarantee then the UK which seems more appealing.

Confidence, that won't be an issue but I'm not one for overseeing safety or skill level as the sea is the boss in my eyes. It is more a case of me taking the correct steps starting out and It feels like the hardest thing is getting into sailing so I am hoping the forum can help me out

Agreed but NW is a stones throw from one of the best cruising destinations. NW scotland. I sailed from Liverpool to Oban in 2 days and then it was on. Personally I’m not into Med or Caribbean style of sailing. Too many other people.

Don’t by your circumnavigation boat too early... as what you think you’ll be able to handle will increase. When I got my 26ft I was like wow a bigger boat would be scary to handle. Now I’m singlehanding a 43ft 17tonne boat and feel fine about it.

That said don’t buy it too late. I had mine for 1.5 years before setting off and I’m sure glad I did! Gives you chance to really know the boat and take everything apart and put it back together.

 

[Hilts86]

It reads to me as an incredibly well-considered plan that errs on the side of caution. Assuming you can devote a handful of weekends plus 2-6 full weeks per year (and assuming you pick it up with reasonable ease and, importantly, enjoyment) this seems achievable.

As you say, many do it more quickly and without mishap; that is not to say without risk but then there are plenty of more experienced folks that make silly mistakes and forget to think things through.

The meta-advice is always be learning, understand there are different ways of doing things, and build experience by knowing and challenging your limits. Many of us would happily set sail in a force 6; that doesn't mean it's advisable to do so if you happen to be a novice skipper, with inexperienced crew, in unfamiliar waters. RYA qualifications are good, but they are not the be-all and end-all (which your instructor would hopefully tell you); in this country we are responsible for our own learning and long may that last.

The micro-advice: do go sailing with different people, on different boats and on different environments. If you are fit, punctual, helpful and turn up with a bottle of wine I shouldn't think it's hard to find somebody to take you sailing. If you offer a hand with maintenance (which is all to the good of experience when you become an owner) people will queue around the block to give you a ride.

Racing and dinghy sailing aren't for everyone but they do provide learning opportunities that yacht cruising may take years to match. The finesse of a well-executed racing tack; sailing fast upwind on the edge of acceptable power; a spinnaker gybe under pressure; sailing a dinghy by the lee and out-of-control with no serious danger; playing follow-the-leader and practising 360s; chucking your dinghy through hundreds of windy gybes on a sixpence (including capsizes) all stand you in good stead as a yacht skipper. Somebody always pipes up here and says "yes, but dinghy sailing doesn't give you your VHF license or teach you liferaft/winching/engine maintenance/flag etiquette"; they are right and they also miss the point. Sailing is a range of skills and you have to take responsibility for acquiring the skills commensurate with your goals.

Best of luck.

Thank you for all the responses, they’ve all been really helpful and confirmed my initial thoughts of being able to walk before running and gaining experience in multiple different areas on different types of vessels.

I think my first port of call is going to be joining a local inland sailing club and learning in a dinghy once lockdown is lifted with the aim of getting some sea/crew experience, in the meantime using online resources for the classroom side of thing As in safety procedures and the dos and dont’s...once I’m upto speed I’ll get myself on an RYA course.

From a mooring and buying a boat point of view I think I’d prefer to buy a 36-40ft boat next year in the Med as opposed to something now sub 30ft in the UK as I would imagine I’ll end up having to buy 2 boats that way in relatively quick succession and a smaller boat could slow me buying a boat in the Med subject to repairs and having to sell the smaller boar to fee up capital.

Time wise I would be able to travel over to the med for weeks at a time solo as I work online and over mobile phone so the flexibility to learn and be on a boat for a number of weeks a year is pretty much certain, my wife is a teacher and also wants to spend time sailing and learning albeit not in the same way I want to, she’ll be relying on me to teach her once we are at the stage.

With the responses I feel much happier with my approach and once the world returns to some form of normality I will be taking all the advice and acting on it ??

 

[doug748]

"................I don't know Bolton Sailing Club but an inland Level 2 dinghy course would not be a bad start. Depending where you are in Lancashire there are other inland clubs. East Manchester has one run by the council and they regularly run courses. "


I agree with the above. Do the combined 1 & 2 course. They may even be able to run those June dates which would be ideal. At the same time you can also:

Keep up the reading.

Check out sea sailing. Lancashire is not an great sailing coast. I think you will get more opportunities and better experience, if you focus on North Wales. You may get a lead on here and, when conditions allow, have a good weekend mooch around all the key sailing spots. Chat to people in the yards, look at a few boats for sale - don't mess people about though be frank, if you tell people you are thinking of buying in the future they will often be helpful.

After you have done your dinghy stuff, looked at a few boats and had a few trips you may hate it. In which case you have lost little.

.

 

[Hilts86]

"................I don't know Bolton Sailing Club but an inland Level 2 dinghy course would not be a bad start. Depending where you are in Lancashire there are other inland clubs. East Manchester has one run by the council and they regularly run courses. "


I agree with the above. Do the combined 1 & 2 course. They may even be able to run those June dates which would be ideal. At the same time you can also:

Keep up the reading.

Check out sea sailing. Lancashire is not an great sailing coast. I think you will get more opportunities and better experience, if you focus on North Wales. You may get a lead on here and, when conditions allow, have a good weekend mooch around all the key sailing spots. Chat to people in the yards, look at a few boats for sale - don't mess people about though be frank, if you tell people you are thinking of buying in the future they will often be helpful.

After you have done your dinghy stuff, looked at a few boats and had a few trips you may hate it. In which case you have lost little.

.

You’ve pretty much confirmed what my approach is going to be. My post has achieved what I wanted it to and it’s really good to have confirmation from experienced sailors. Thanks once again ??

 

[[70521]]

Hello and welcome

I am from the ignore the dingy school, unless you particularly want to get a wet bum and want to go swimming. Get on a yacht and learn the skills you need for what you currently want to do at sea as you might be prone to sea sickness. I sail two boats, 4 and 130 tonne, it's nothing like skitting about on a plank with a wet hanky.

 

[neil_s]

Do the Day Skipper by all means - but don't let it stop you from getting your own little boat and getting out there yourself. Your reading and trips out fishing and with others will all help. Just stick to nice weather to start with!

 

[Hilts86]

Hello and welcome

I am from the ignore the dingy school, unless you particularly want to get a wet bum and want to go swimming. Get on a yacht and learn the skills you need for what you currently want to do at sea as you might be prone to sea sickness. I sail two boats, 4 and 130 tonne, it's nothing like skitting about on a plank with a wet hanky.

Initially i didn't really fancy the dinghy side of things as it isn't what I want to do but I think it'll give me a starting point, minimal costs in comparison to buying and mooring a boat in the NW or Wales and it'll provide me more opportunities to be out on the water...in the short term it could stand me in really good stead and speed up my learning and development. I don't intend to get a wet bum for very long but the knowledge and sailing skills a dinghy will give me with the possibilities of it opening up doors to yacht sailing are steering me in that direction...purely down to the fact that I wouldn't imagine anybody inviting me on to a yacht as crew given my lack of sailing experience.

 

[davidej]

I don't think the days of flitting out for long weekends in the Med via Ryanair will return for some time.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

One other thing to consider. You mention in your opening post about chartering or skippering the boat for others. Frankly that's probably a non starter unless you are particularly determined to do it. The complexity of qualifications, coding, regulation and taxation in this area is high even in the UK; if you want to do it in the Med then it's harder still. If that idea plus ownership still appeals you could maybe look at the Sunsail Ownership (or similar) programme. They do the chartering. You own the boat, and can use your time elsewhere in the world too. Might appeal.