Heckler
Active member
Bene Cup this weekend in Pwllheli, my trusty 351 is entered, question is what is an easy to understand rule of thumb for placing the genoa car in various wind strengths please?
Where does the car go for different wind strengths please?
- Thread starter Heckler
- Start date
VicS
Well-known member
You have to position it to get the telltales flying properly. Determine the correct position in various wind strengths and mark positions. Thre may not be a big variation.
It will almost certainly have to go forward as you bear away.
Chapter 5 on This site has some helpful tips but others may suggest some better source of info
It will almost certainly have to go forward as you bear away.
Chapter 5 on This site has some helpful tips but others may suggest some better source of info
MoodySabre
Well-known member
Light winds - car right forward. Move it back as wind increases so that the jib is pulled further in and flatter.
Phoenix of Hamble
Active member
Or back to basics, the car position determines the foot tension and leech tension in the sail..... forward means a loose foot, and slightly less tight leech good for downwind, and back means a tight foot, and slightly tighter leech, good for upwind... and equally, as Moodysailor says above, generally flat is good in a breeze, and less flat is good in light stuff....
Its a bit of a simplification, and sail setting can be a hugely complex subject, but hpefully all this and others advice above will help....
If its any further assistance, i've found that on most boats i've sailed, unless you are into hank on head sails, and using significantly different sail sizes, then you'll only really need to move the car a small amount....often less than a 1/4 of the track in total....
Its a bit of a simplification, and sail setting can be a hugely complex subject, but hpefully all this and others advice above will help....
If its any further assistance, i've found that on most boats i've sailed, unless you are into hank on head sails, and using significantly different sail sizes, then you'll only really need to move the car a small amount....often less than a 1/4 of the track in total....
bilbobaggins
N/A
Quite right! You'll also see suggested that the sheet-lead angle to the clew-angle ( between the angle made by the leech and the foot ) is 'a little higher than bisecting'.
What does that mean? Start by marking, with thin sticky tape on the sail, the bisector of the angle. That's not far off right for fresh breeze, where you want to flatten the sail, reduce the heeling moment, and move the C of E aft.
Then stick on more tape, about 5-10º higher. That's close to right for light-to-medium airs - say, 10-15 knots apparent. That leaves the C of E a bit more forward, bellies the sail a bit, and pulls more lift ( and drag ) from the weaker airflow. This usually needs some minor 'tweaking' to determine that sail's sweet spot in that boat trim, but should suffice for next weekend.
Stick on more tape about 10º higher again, for really light airs. By now, you should have switched to lightweight sheets - or just one - stripped of the sheath. Crew should have been banned from moving about the boat and changing the lateral trim. The boat needs to be kept heeled about 10-12º to help keep the sail shape.
Disruptive wash from passing mobos turns you into a ranting, homicidal homunculus...... Fervent curses, such as "Steer small, damn your eyes!" hang in the air. Friends and family aboard resolve never to share an afternoon's boating with you ever again. Daughter starts to cry. Small son hides under the fenders in the lazarette......
Someone takes your wind from port, and stays there. You offer a small kings ransom to anyone who will rid you of this affront to your manhood and your noble heritage. You briefly contemplate a 'pact with The Devil' a la The Flying Dutchman, but you cannot remember the URL for the receptionist at Hell....
Life is not worth living.... until an errant puff reaches you first, and you creep ahead, putting him in dirty air. Life is now good, for a while.....
You re-adjust the genoa car position a little - and lose half-a-knot! "What's that blurry helmsman doing?" you demand. "Can't he see the tell-tales?"
None of your crew will make eye contact.
Isn't racing fun?
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
What does that mean? Start by marking, with thin sticky tape on the sail, the bisector of the angle. That's not far off right for fresh breeze, where you want to flatten the sail, reduce the heeling moment, and move the C of E aft.
Then stick on more tape, about 5-10º higher. That's close to right for light-to-medium airs - say, 10-15 knots apparent. That leaves the C of E a bit more forward, bellies the sail a bit, and pulls more lift ( and drag ) from the weaker airflow. This usually needs some minor 'tweaking' to determine that sail's sweet spot in that boat trim, but should suffice for next weekend.
Stick on more tape about 10º higher again, for really light airs. By now, you should have switched to lightweight sheets - or just one - stripped of the sheath. Crew should have been banned from moving about the boat and changing the lateral trim. The boat needs to be kept heeled about 10-12º to help keep the sail shape.
Disruptive wash from passing mobos turns you into a ranting, homicidal homunculus...... Fervent curses, such as "Steer small, damn your eyes!" hang in the air. Friends and family aboard resolve never to share an afternoon's boating with you ever again. Daughter starts to cry. Small son hides under the fenders in the lazarette......
Someone takes your wind from port, and stays there. You offer a small kings ransom to anyone who will rid you of this affront to your manhood and your noble heritage. You briefly contemplate a 'pact with The Devil' a la The Flying Dutchman, but you cannot remember the URL for the receptionist at Hell....
Life is not worth living.... until an errant puff reaches you first, and you creep ahead, putting him in dirty air. Life is now good, for a while.....
You re-adjust the genoa car position a little - and lose half-a-knot! "What's that blurry helmsman doing?" you demand. "Can't he see the tell-tales?"
None of your crew will make eye contact.
Isn't racing fun?
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Blueboatman
Well-known member
.....and if you get into it and actually enjoy it,consider some powerful deck layed tackles and jammers so that you can adjust the position of the cars from the cockpit incrementally-thats posh for you.
Lot more fun if your insurance covers racing /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Lot more fun if your insurance covers racing /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
LymingtonPugwash
New member
[ QUOTE ]
By now, you should have switched to lightweight sheets - or just one - stripped of the sheath. Crew should have been banned from moving about the boat and changing the lateral trim. The boat needs to be kept heeled about 10-12º to help keep the sail shape.
Disruptive wash from passing mobos turns you into a ranting, homicidal homunculus...... Fervent curses, such as "Steer small, damn your eyes!" hang in the air. Friends and family aboard resolve never to share an afternoon's boating with you ever again. Daughter starts to cry. Small son hides under the fenders in the lazarette......
Someone takes your wind from port, and stays there. You offer a small kings ransom to anyone who will rid you of this affront to your manhood and your noble heritage. You briefly contemplate a 'pact with The Devil' a la The Flying Dutchman, but you cannot remember the URL for the receptionist at Hell....
Life is not worth living.... until an errant puff reaches you first, and you creep ahead, putting him in dirty air. Life is now good, for a while.....
You re-adjust the genoa car position a little - and lose half-a-knot! "What's that blurry helmsman doing?" you demand. "Can't he see the tell-tales?"
None of your crew will make eye contact.
Isn't racing fun? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
What? You mean that should only happen when racing?
So that explains why I lose all my cruising friends as well!
No wonder everyone runs off when I suggest coming out for a gentle, relaxing sail! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
By now, you should have switched to lightweight sheets - or just one - stripped of the sheath. Crew should have been banned from moving about the boat and changing the lateral trim. The boat needs to be kept heeled about 10-12º to help keep the sail shape.
Disruptive wash from passing mobos turns you into a ranting, homicidal homunculus...... Fervent curses, such as "Steer small, damn your eyes!" hang in the air. Friends and family aboard resolve never to share an afternoon's boating with you ever again. Daughter starts to cry. Small son hides under the fenders in the lazarette......
Someone takes your wind from port, and stays there. You offer a small kings ransom to anyone who will rid you of this affront to your manhood and your noble heritage. You briefly contemplate a 'pact with The Devil' a la The Flying Dutchman, but you cannot remember the URL for the receptionist at Hell....
Life is not worth living.... until an errant puff reaches you first, and you creep ahead, putting him in dirty air. Life is now good, for a while.....
You re-adjust the genoa car position a little - and lose half-a-knot! "What's that blurry helmsman doing?" you demand. "Can't he see the tell-tales?"
None of your crew will make eye contact.
Isn't racing fun? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
What? You mean that should only happen when racing?
So that explains why I lose all my cruising friends as well!
No wonder everyone runs off when I suggest coming out for a gentle, relaxing sail! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
temptress
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
Bene Cup this weekend in Pwllheli, my trusty 351 is entered, question is what is an easy to understand rule of thumb for placing the genoa car in various wind strengths please?
[/ QUOTE ]
Car posistion is not all that difficult.
General rule of thumb
Set the car so that when the sail is sheeted in for a beat the line from the sheet to the clew when extended hits the luff at one third down from the head.
Depending on the sails cut, material, wind and ea state this initial location is variable.
After that adjustment is very minor but critical and whole books have been written on the subject.
Bene Cup this weekend in Pwllheli, my trusty 351 is entered, question is what is an easy to understand rule of thumb for placing the genoa car in various wind strengths please?
[/ QUOTE ]
Car posistion is not all that difficult.
General rule of thumb
Set the car so that when the sail is sheeted in for a beat the line from the sheet to the clew when extended hits the luff at one third down from the head.
Depending on the sails cut, material, wind and ea state this initial location is variable.
After that adjustment is very minor but critical and whole books have been written on the subject.
flaming
Well-known member
Something no-one else has mentioned.
Trimming each sail individually is wrong. The rig as a whole should be trimmed.
So it's no use setting up a beautifully set Genoa with all tell tales breaking evenly if you're having to twist off the main to keep the boat on its feet, as you'll just be backwinding the top half of the main with the flow coming off the genoa.
I find the easiest way of getting the trim right is to start with the main. Get the boat sailing upwind, and trim the main for the conditions. E.g Flat water -less twist etc.
Then trim in the Genoa and watch the slot. Try and keep it even as far up as possible. Move the car to make it even.
Then as the wind picks up (or the waves - just as crucial) start twisting off the main and move the cars back to match the twist and keep the slot even.
Trimming each sail individually is wrong. The rig as a whole should be trimmed.
So it's no use setting up a beautifully set Genoa with all tell tales breaking evenly if you're having to twist off the main to keep the boat on its feet, as you'll just be backwinding the top half of the main with the flow coming off the genoa.
I find the easiest way of getting the trim right is to start with the main. Get the boat sailing upwind, and trim the main for the conditions. E.g Flat water -less twist etc.
Then trim in the Genoa and watch the slot. Try and keep it even as far up as possible. Move the car to make it even.
Then as the wind picks up (or the waves - just as crucial) start twisting off the main and move the cars back to match the twist and keep the slot even.
Heckler
Active member
Thanks all for the knowledge, will update after the weekend, first race is round the islands and is a straight race, sunday is a handicap based on the sat race, i got 11 mins last time and came in 3rd, narrowly beating david e with his 31.7 hee hee. will be tempting to sail badly on the first day??
