where do mobos go to die?

[ian38_39]

The closing gap between petrol and diesel fuel prices will, in my opinion, see many turning from expensive diesel to cheaper petrol boats.

The market does seem to be very quiet. My Settimo Velo (twin Mercruiser V6) has received much interest from enthusiasts but little interest of any worth from buyers.

As we now have some of the highest fuel prices in the world here in the UK - and a growing sense that we're no longer doing so terribly well for ourselves! - I can see people walking away from their boats and passing the problem back to the Finance company!

That said, with GBP continuing to be weak against the Euro, I can see our fleet starting to have some appeal to the Med, if the price is right. And if the price isn't right, we'll need to figure out how to dispose of a bungalow sized pieces of GRP!

Petrol boat prices were never going to rise and it stands to reason as diesel boat prices free fall towards them that people will buy the diesel boats when they get to the same level as petrol, only result to that is petrol falls a bit again to re establish a difference but it will be a couple of thousand rather than the statutory 10k that existed before.

As far as the Eurozone is concerned, don't forget that previous price falls here have come as a result of the loss of derogation. Euro boaters were used to paying full price for their fuel anyway so when the Pound hi Parity with the Euro it was a free for all on UK boats.

The pound is up 20% from there and the price of diesel in Europe is also going up to the point that they are also feeling the pinch and seeing the same sort of results in there home markets. The real bargains that I have seen sold recently have been in Germany so don't assume that the Europeans are going to be so quick to jump in and plunder the stock again.

There may still be some worth in newish, more expensive boats if the price falls but the difference in price here to there in older boats has got to be huge to make the expense and aggravation of moving it worthwhile. Even if a 50k boat is 20% cheaper here it is still not worth the flights for viewings, transport and general aggravation factor to take it back.

 

[asteven221]

I was thinking about this subject only last night and spotted this thread today. So where do these old boats go? After reading through the thread it appears we don't actually know. There are a lot of posts and commments but I can't see any that says with some factual evidence what happens to them. They must go somewhere!

It seems to me that people buy a new boat and when the time comes, sell it to someone further down the boating food chain. The buyer then refurbish it etc.... and eventually sells to someone further down the food chain and so on for many years......

I can understand that happening with boats that say have an original price of say, less than £500k new (at current prices), as these are in the mass market (for want off a better description) part of the boating industry. But when I think of >£500k boats and in particular >£1m boats, what in earth happens to them? There are loads of them about so where do they go? In saying that, having thought about it, >45 feet is a relatively new thing in mass market mobos, so maybe they are not at the age when they are getting in to the stage where they are getting passed down the food chain towards "project territory".

Do boats >£1m plus get passsed down the food chain the same way as boats <£500k?

Same question for luxury grp boats at >£3m. There are a lot of them as well so they must go somewhere too. Heaven knows what the cost of a refurb would be on a tatty old 70 footer that cost £3m when the first owner got on board!!!

 

[bumpy_the_dog]

I've no idea where diesel Mobo's go, but everyone knows that all petrol boats eventually catch fire and sink, and all sail boats eventually realise the dream and end up in Tahiti draped with top South Pacific totty.

You don't need a large hadron collider to realise this is the only possible explanation for those gaps in marinas.

 

[Searush]

The really nice ones become old classics & do get refurbished. But I suspect many may become "insurance write offs" at a certain time of life. But there ar still lots of old MTB's etc used as house boats.

 

[tinkicker0]

I think most of them are on the River Ouse between York and Naburn camourflaged by a thick green moss.

For a boater (OK ex boater) its quite a sad sight to see so many neglected vessels.

Indeed. This un is there year after year, gawd knows how it stays afloat but it does. Only ever seen someone on it once; hitting something with a big hammer.

That Seamaster type called Quality Chase springs to mind also, slowly bits keep falling off it and the moss gets deeper. Then there's the big wooden one with the tarps that looks like it has been on fire.

All just sat there for years.

Often wondered what happened to these vessels. Maybe the owners died or something.

 

[BartW]

Heaven knows what the cost of a refurb would be on a tatty old 70 footer that cost £3m when the first owner got on board!!!

I can tell you exactly within a few weeks when Blue Angel refurb is finished

seriously though, I've been wondering myself many times,
and I have experienced that in that segment (20yo super yachts) bargains can be done, but thats only purchase price,
all other costs to keep such a boat running and in good condition will put off many boaters.

As already was posted in another thread this week, people who can afford to run a 70ft boat, with full time crew and all that, usually can afford the newer yachts, with the latest technology, and the most modern and classy finish. (not me)
They don't want the hassle neither the concern for potential technical issues with older vessels.

since I started to pay attention at these old big boats, I noticed that some of them are still on the market now 4 years later. So I believe ones over 15y o the value of these super yachts lowers dramatically, simply because there are so many on the market.

so what happens with them when they are +20yo ?
I guess some of them are cared for many more years, and some others are left alone, and will fall apart until they need to remove the remains. (have seen a few examples in port Napoleon SOF and in a deserted canal near Rome, etc etc etc.

I hope I will be able to care for and love Blue Angel, as much as I'm doing right now, for many more years to come.

 

[bumpy_the_dog]

So I believe ones over 15y o the value of these super yachts lowers dramatically, simply because there are so many on the market.

so what happens with them when they are +20yo ?
I guess some of them are cared for many more years, and some others are left alone, and will fall apart until they need to remove the remains.

You've nailed it.

If you were to graph out the growth of mobo production since the second world world war I'm sure you'd see a massive surge in the production of non trailerable mobos since about 1980. In other words this is a new problem, one that's now raising its head for the very first time.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Hence older 30-40' boats, even good ones as this appears to be, drop in value like a stone.

Except they don't. A used Fairline Turbo 36 costs the same now as when I bought one back in 1991 and for that matter, so does a Princess 435 and Sealine 305 which I've also owned. IMHO what happens is that every boat finds its own sustainable price level at which successive buyers are happy to buy it for ever and a day. Some less popular boats take many years to find their level and other more popular ones find it relatively quickly but find a level they eventually do. Yes some boats are dropping in value but only because they haven't found that sustainable price level yet

 

[Searush]

Except they don't. A used Fairline Turbo 36 costs the same now as when I bought one back in 1991 and for that matter, so does a Princess 435 and Sealine 305 which I've also owned. IMHO what happens is that every boat finds its own sustainable price level at which successive buyers are happy to buy it for ever and a day. Some less popular boats take many years to find their level and other more popular ones find it relatively quickly but find a level they eventually do. Yes some boats are dropping in value but only because they haven't found that sustainable price level yet

But that only works as long as they are properly maintained. The time comes when maintaning them (especially if engines need replacing) becomes just too pricey for most potential owners, that's when the slow decline into houseboat status starts.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

But that only works as long as they are properly maintained. The time comes when maintaning them (especially if engines need replacing) becomes just too pricey for most potential owners, that's when the slow decline into houseboat status starts.

Well yes, there'll always be a few boats that deteriorate into immobile houseboats but IMHO there are enough keen owners to keep most older boats running. I also reckon most older boats are still running their original engine blocks although many will have had to be reconditioned.

 

[Greg2]

Except they don't. A used Fairline Turbo 36 costs the same now as when I bought one back in 1991 and for that matter, so does a Princess 435 and Sealine 305 which I've also owned. IMHO what happens is that every boat finds its own sustainable price level at which successive buyers are happy to buy it for ever and a day. Some less popular boats take many years to find their level and other more popular ones find it relatively quickly but find a level they eventually do. Yes some boats are dropping in value but only because they haven't found that sustainable price level yet

I agree to a point but it seem to me that boats which have have sustained a particular value for a period of time inevitably reach the stage where they drop in price. Examples would be the Targa 33/34/35 range, which always sold well but have dropped in value over the lasts 2 or 3 years. Another would be the Princess 45 - great boats but now can be picked up for a lot less than they were selling for in the not too distant past.

I guess that his may be the economic climate leading to values finding a new level but I do wonder if boats get to an age where they take a dip in value.

 

[hlb]

Well yes, there'll always be a few boats that deteriorate into immobile houseboats but IMHO there are enough keen owners to keep most older boats running. I also reckon most older boats are still running their original engine blocks although many will have had to be reconditioned.

I dont think the state of the engines comes in to it. well not at this stage anyway, loads of folk will show interest, with emails back and forth. Asking just how perfect the boat is. It dont make much difference, how perfect you make it sound. They just dont turn up.

Most seem to just have so much money to spend, say 40 grand. Even if you offer it for their 40 grand, they still have cold feet.

 

[PaulGooch]

I dont think the state of the engines comes in to it. well not at this stage anyway, loads of folk will show interest, with emails back and forth. Asking just how perfect the boat is. It dont make much difference, how perfect you make it sound. They just dont turn up.

Most seem to just have so much money to spend, say 40 grand. Even if you offer it for their 40 grand, they still have cold feet.

Basically Haydn, those people are time wasting tossers. If you offered it to them for free i doubt they'd turn up. I regularly get people send me ridiculous offers on cars, sometimes (for a laugh, or just out of curiosity) i email them back accepting their stupid offer. Never here any more from them.

 

[PaulGooch]

I dont think the state of the engines comes in to it. well not at this stage anyway, loads of folk will show interest, with emails back and forth. Asking just how perfect the boat is. It dont make much difference, how perfect you make it sound. They just dont turn up.

Most seem to just have so much money to spend, say 40 grand. Even if you offer it for their 40 grand, they still have cold feet.

Out of curiosity, i thought i'd look at your boat Haydn.

Did a Google search and the first hit was for some ad's on Boatshop 24.

Clicked on the ad for your boat. One huge long paragraph describing the boat, 'kin unpleasant to read, not even a space between "sentances". Just a single pic. Click on link to Boat Shed site, which doesn't take me to your boat so i have to search again. Still can't see the pics, have to register. ** After registering and then logging in, i can see the pics.

** As someone who has recently been searching and researching my next boat, there's little chance i'd still be pressing buttons to see this boat, i'd have moved on.

I hate Boat Shed pics. i want to see the boat, not zoomed in, out of context pics. Pics 1 and 2 of a rusty anchor. Pic 3 of very grubby looking canvas. Pic 4, is that a long scratch, or just a pic of a metre of rubbing strake. Pic 5, another anchor shot. Pic 7, anchor again. Few various pics of nothing much, then pic 12, some gelcoat cracks around a stanchion. I'm not up to pic 18 and finally see an interior shot that's kind of worth looking at. One or two half decent ones, then i get to the zoomed marks on the carpet in pic 27. I clicked through the rest and in total i maybe saw half a dozen decent pics that i think reflect the boat accurately (but only because i kind of know the boat from here). The rest are out of context zoomed in rubbish that only serve to badly highlight every tiny mark or scratch on the boat.

I'm not slating your boat, just the way it's advertised. It's by no means the only one that's poorly marketed, many others are. Things are probably not selling too well just now, those that are well marketed must surely be the most likely ones to sell.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I agree to a point but it seem to me that boats which have have sustained a particular value for a period of time inevitably reach the stage where they drop in price. Examples would be the Targa 33/34/35 range, which always sold well but have dropped in value over the lasts 2 or 3 years. Another would be the Princess 45 - great boats but now can be picked up for a lot less than they were selling for in the not too distant past.

I guess that his may be the economic climate leading to values finding a new level but I do wonder if boats get to an age where they take a dip in value.

No, I still don't think that values dip just because a boat gets old. As you say I think at the moment, the economic climate is depressing values generally. Regarding the P45, I don't know what they sell for these days but asking prices seem to be around the £105-115k mark which is not a lot different to asking prices back in the early 1990's when I seriously looked at buying one. Then the average asking price was around £125k. Don't know the Targa 33/34/35 range well so can't really comment