Where can I buy sailcloth?

[daveyjones]

... without the need for a second mortgage. In the good old days, a quick call to Richard Hayward would result in a delivery. They have now been taken over by Heathcoat fabrics and are no longer selling cloth - they only have cream cloth available (not ideal for my boat). I then tried Kayospruce, after three calls to a Peter Baines (or Barnes) there, I stil haven't received even the swatches I requested. Nice to know that in a time of economic difficulty a company is doing so well that they don't have to worry about selling nearly two thousand quid's worth of product to a potential customer, but the bad manners in not bothering to even send the requested samples speaks for itself.

(Incidentally I was told that Kayospruce trade prices are 50% of the retail prices on the website , something you might like to consider if you are so foolhardy as to deal with this company).

I then looked on ebay, and contacted a seller who stated in his ad that he had thousands of feet of cloth of different weights. When I called it became clear that he had no idea what he had in stock, and despite saying he'd check and call back, I haven't heard from him. Again nice to know he's doing so well he can write off sales of over a thousand quid for the sake of an hour or two rummaging through rolls of fabric ( i even offered to go down and help him).

There seems little point in moaning about the general 'can't be bothered' attitude of the British, as exemplified here, so does anyone have any idea where I can get 120-150 metres of 10 or 12 oz weight cloth at 92 cms width, plain white? I am prepared to pay a reasonable price, but not the 20-30 pounds a metre that Kayospruce are charging.

If all else fails I will start contacting foreign suppliers.

 

[dmmbruce]

You seem to be taking a strange approach to this. Why not try B&Q as well!

Just ring any sailmaker. They have sail cloth. No problem.

Mike

 

[electrosys]

I then looked on ebay, and contacted a seller who stated in his ad that he had thousands of feet of cloth of different weights. When I called it became clear that he had no idea what he had in stock, and despite saying he'd check and call back, I haven't heard from him. Again nice to know he's doing so well he can write off sales of over a thousand quid for the sake of an hour or two rummaging through rolls of fabric ( i even offered to go down and help him).

I know the bloke - emailed him last year about the weight of some cloth - but his reply was so vague that I began to suspect the quality of his stock. I asked whether it was quality sailcloth with reasonable UV resistance. All I got was a lecture about keeping sailcloth out of the sun !

 

[savageseadog]

http://www.profabrics.co.uk/

 

[penfold]

I must declare an interest because he's a mate, but you could do worse than give Nicolson Hughes Sails a call. He buys a lot of roll ends and seconds material that isn't quite the right colour or has odd threads but is otherwise functional, so usually has some cheap stuff in stock.

 

[daveyjones]

I should have mentioned that In have contacted several sailmakers, who either refused to sell cloth or wanted not only a hefty "retail" price, but an even heftier profit margin on top (similarly with the eyelets I wanted).
Since B and Q have been mentioned, buying this way would be like buying 10 screws in a bubblepack from a DIY store, for the same price as a 1000 from Screwfix.

I have also already looked at Profabrics, but they don't have what I want in their stock list.

In truth, posting on here is in the nature of a last resort, as the UK sailcloth market seems dominated by a few suppliers, aided and abetted by what sometimes seems like a conspiracy amongst sailmakers to maintain their market against people like myself who wish to make their own sails. As I pointed out to the sailmakers I contacted (as well as Kayospruce) I do not intend to employ a sailmaker in any circumstance, so they will lose no business in selling cloth to me.

While I am willing to pay a reasonable price for the cloth I need, I am neither willing nor able to pay the inflated non-trade prices offered by the afore-mentioned outfits. If I don't get any leads from this post, I'll give up trying to do the decent thing (by buying in the UK) and look to foreign suppliers. If that fails, it'll have to be the cream cloth from Heathcoat, or even recutting second-hand sails.

Anyway, thanks to all for taking the trouble to reply, and to any replies that arrive in the future.

 

[penfold]

Let us know how you get on.

 

[daveyjones]

For anyone interested, I sent an email to the Manager at Kayospruce complaining about non-receipt of swatches despite three calls to ask for them-he phoned me the next day and promised to sort it out, so credit where credit is due.
Both Bainbridge and Contender refuse to sell to non-trade customers, on the grounds that they are protecting their sailmakers (this despite me pointing out that I was not taking work from professionals as I am making my own sails).

Dimension polyant were a bit more flexible, and agreed to sell cloth but at retail prices only, thus putting it completely out of range of my budget.

Cal me naive, but you would think that at a time of economic recession, they'd be glad to sell to anyone, trade or not. As for protectionism, exactly how many people in the UK are making their own sails right now? Surely not enough to make the slightest dent in the industry. And of them, how many will go to a sailmaker because they can't buy cloth at non-ripoff prices?

 

[theoldsalt]

Daveyjones,

If you have had no luck from the larger sailmakers, try a small business.

Try contacting Chris Scanes at Sails & Canvas, Topsham, Devon. He may be willing to supply sail cloth at a reasonable mark-up plus P&P.

http://www.sailsandcanvas.co.uk/

or better still give Chris a call on 01392 877527

I have always found him eager to help and has a lifetime's experience.

 

[lustyd]

I think most people don't make their own sails because they don't have a sail loft in which to make them. Availability or price of fabric doesn't come into it!

 

[dolphin]

sail cloth

i bought (1) 3.5 oz - about 40 m2 = 430 square feet
(2)5.5 oz - about 5 m2 = 50 square feet

from http://stores.ebay.com/brokerman20095

everything was good

 

[VicMallows]

Cal me naive, but you would think that at a time of economic recession, they'd be glad to sell to anyone, trade or not.

Agree. Surprises me too. Brings back memories of the early 60's when buying almost anything of a 'trade' nature (rather than everyday shopping) was horrendously difficult ...quite apart from cost. (I did soon learn that an invented company name; a confident attitude; and the word CASH; worked wonders at most 'factors' )

Edit: That was except for RS (RadioSpares in those days) .... they would simply not supply ANYONE until you had passed an 'interview' with their rep !!!

 

[daveyjones]

I am now dealing with Kayospruce, the manager there was very helpful after I complained about the lack of response to my original request for prices. Having pointed out to all the companies I contacted that although I was not a sailmaker, I build boats commercially (ie I am in the 'trade'), none of the others were interested, or would only sell at 'retail' prices.

Incidentally, a sail loft is not necessary to make sails (assuming you aren't making them all the time) - I usually hire a local church, school or vilage hall, anywhere with a clean wood floor of adequate size. First visit is to chalk out the sail plan, lay out the cloths and mark up for sewing. Second visit is to draw in the final sail size on the cloth with all the necessary roaches ( ie curves), ready for finishing. Worst damage is a few chalk marks on the floor (cut the sailcloth over plywood so you don't mark the floor) .

My technique wouldn't work for modern racing boats, but as I am only interested in gaff-rigged cruising boats, durability and ease of construction/repair is more important. A Davies said (in the Riddle of the Sands), ' I don't go in for speed".

Anyone who wants to make their own sails should definitely give it a try, all you need is lots of time and a copy of Bowker and Budd's ' Make your Own Sails'. There is also some good stuff on You Tube showing the basic methods.

 

[daveyjones]

sailcloth

I have now received my order of sailcloth from Kayospruce, the manager there (Ian Dawson) was very helpful and the order was processed very quickly. They also have very good trade prices, so I would definitely recommend them to anyone in the trade. Their catalogue is extremely varied and impressive.

I bought a quantity of Richard Hayward cloth from them, which I was very happy to get as it is hard to find, Haywards having closed down some years ago apparently.

 

[Neeves]

An interesting thread.

You can buy a kit car and build it yourself. Closer to home you can buy kit boats and build them as well. Here in Oz you can buy the plans and progiles and build your won 50' catamaran if you want, there is or are whole industries geared to supply someone wanting to build an ocean going cat from, basically pieces of paper. Foam or balsa, lots of glass and resin, some (or a lot of0 fairing but all quite possible. You can even build you own carbon fibre rig. There are plans for steel yachts - and if you go back a couple of decades a whole wealth of information on ferro. Now none of this is 'easy' you do need a bit of skill and a lot of enthusiasm.

You coud actually go down to your garden shed and set up an anchor building business - you do need to know or learn how to weld - but lots of people can weld.

You can also service your own diesel engine, do your own antifouling (or apply Copper Coat) you can re-wire your yacht. You can teach yourself celestial navigation, you can sail round the world - somewhere in this forum there are leads to them all.

Build you own sails - not a word.

Odd really?

 

[charles_reed]

I should have mentioned that In have contacted several sailmakers, who either refused to sell cloth or wanted not only a hefty "retail" price, but an even heftier profit margin on top (similarly with the eyelets I wanted).
Since B and Q have been mentioned, buying this way would be like buying 10 screws in a bubblepack from a DIY store, for the same price as a 1000 from Screwfix.

I have also already looked at Profabrics, but they don't have what I want in their stock list.

In truth, posting on here is in the nature of a last resort, as the UK sailcloth market seems dominated by a few suppliers, aided and abetted by what sometimes seems like a conspiracy amongst sailmakers to maintain their market against people like myself who wish to make their own sails. As I pointed out to the sailmakers I contacted (as well as Kayospruce) I do not intend to employ a sailmaker in any circumstance, so they will lose no business in selling cloth to me.

While I am willing to pay a reasonable price for the cloth I need, I am neither willing nor able to pay the inflated non-trade prices offered by the afore-mentioned outfits. If I don't get any leads from this post, I'll give up trying to do the decent thing (by buying in the UK) and look to foreign suppliers. If that fails, it'll have to be the cream cloth from Heathcoat, or even recutting second-hand sails.

Anyway, thanks to all for taking the trouble to reply, and to any replies that arrive in the future.

Try Bainbridge - they've sold me sail furniture and have a comprehensive range of fabrics - OK they usually only deal with pro sailmakers but the quantity you're looking at should be attractive.

 

[lw395]

An interesting thread.

You can buy a kit car and build it yourself. Closer to home you can buy kit boats and build them as well. Here in Oz you can buy the plans and progiles and build your won 50' catamaran if you want, there is or are whole industries geared to supply someone wanting to build an ocean going cat from, basically pieces of paper. Foam or balsa, lots of glass and resin, some (or a lot of0 fairing but all quite possible. You can even build you own carbon fibre rig. There are plans for steel yachts - and if you go back a couple of decades a whole wealth of information on ferro. Now none of this is 'easy' you do need a bit of skill and a lot of enthusiasm.

You coud actually go down to your garden shed and set up an anchor building business - you do need to know or learn how to weld - but lots of people can weld.

You can also service your own diesel engine, do your own antifouling (or apply Copper Coat) you can re-wire your yacht. You can teach yourself celestial navigation, you can sail round the world - somewhere in this forum there are leads to them all.

Build you own sails - not a word.

Odd really?

There are plenty of articles about making your own sails, if you look.
Mostly it's hard to do well, and the materials cost more than a secondhand sail.
There are sail design programs you can download.
There are quite a few books.
'Sails' by Jeremy Howard-Williams is a good start.

also gooogle 'Tyvek sails' for cheap sails made from builder's membrane.

 

[Neeves]

Now tell me that making a sail is more difficult than building a kit car, a Schionning or Granger 50' yacht (or even a Fusion 40). To build a yacht you need ooddles of 'things' (and stamina). I'm not sure of the figure now but a well known deck hardware company did a survey in Australia - there were 550 catamarans in (self) build at the time. - to build a sail you need a pattern, a decent sewing machine Stg1,000 and a big floor. For a self build you need raw materials and commissioning products, masts, instruments etc and these cost more than a second hand yacht. You need a whole range of skills and knowledge. But industry has accepted the idea. You can buy precut sections for a yacht, glassed foam or balsa to whatever design you have chosen. And suppliers, for example Wests or SP, go out of their way to help. Sail cloth makers go out of their way - it seems, not to help, yet sailmakers are a dying breed, unless you are a resident of Sri Lanka (and in the future China?). One might have thought - that looking at the writing on the wall - they might want to protect their businesses.

Odd really.

 

[prv]

sailmakers are a dying breed, unless you are a resident of Sri Lanka (and in the future China?).

Not in the future - for some years already. Sounds like most big sailmakers already have all their sails made for them at one big factory in Huang Jiang:

http://www.leesails.ca/images/Sailsfromchina2.pdf

Pete

 

[lw395]

Now tell me that making a sail is more difficult than building a kit car, a Schionning or Granger 50' yacht (or even a Fusion 40).........

Well I reckon it might well be, in the sense that I'm pretty confident I could build a kit car and get a result I was happy with first time around, whereas making sails I'm unlikely to get a result to be proud of at the first attempt.
Sailmakers serve an apprenticeship, and like any craft skill, you get better at it the more you practice. I've made my own covers, but I'm now finding that's not all that worthwhile, as it takes me a long time and the materials are not cheap buying 10m at a time.

I wouldn't mind having a go at making my own sails, but in addition to the things you mentioned, you need a design.
Obviously for a simple cruising sail, the design is not so critical.
I have to admit I did buy a length of spinnaker cloth on eBay a while back, but haven't got around to doing anything with it.
I'm mostly dinghy racing these days, so there are issues with class rules etc, and often secondhand sails to buy. But I do know people who have made their own spinnakers.
I think there are some other forums which might have more info (boatdesign.net?), but I'm sure some on here would be interested in how you get on.
Good Luck!