When you see a ship, never mind the IRPCS, just get out of the way

[RIB_imposter]

Here we go - hair splitting ...

I was talking in terms of the subject of this thread. Of course various OTHER sections of IRPCS apply at ALL times ...

Sorry - I thought we were all talking same sections / subject

Ah but we are... the point is that actually bits of the IRPCS are in essence saying "just keep out the bloody way" (9/10/18). In effect that makes the whole point of the thread pointless - its not one or the other! And people seem to always treat the colregs as what happens once we get "too close" - in fact some of the rules should make it less likely that you get in that position in the first place.

I believe that most people actually fall in the same camp... avoid the situation if possible and then apply common sense to avoid a collision, using the colregs to help make (or not make) a manouvre that is clear, understandable and predicatable to the other party.

But the original question is confusing as it incorporates 2 different issues.

1) Avoiding getting in the position in the first place
2) Once in a situation do you stand on when you "should" or just giveway.

 

[Cruiser2B]

Risk of Collision

"Risk of Collision" is also undefined. I take this not to mean 'on a collision course' - otherwise it would say so. In which case you can be on a collision course but (because you know you're about to tack off) under no risk of collision and therefore allowed to tack off. In which case it fails to prevent the thing it's designed to prevent.

What a crock of ****.

Rule 7(d) In determining if risk of collision exists the following considerations shall be among those taken into account:

(i) such risk shall be deemed to exist if the compass bearing of an approaching vessel does not appreciably change,

(ii) such risk may sometimes exist even when an appreciable bearing change is evident, particularly when approaching a very large vessel or a tow or when approaching a vessel at close range.


You might have a better appreciation of the Colregs after you read them.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Rule 7(d) In determining if risk of collision exists the following considerations shall be among those taken into account:

(i) such risk shall be deemed to exist if the compass bearing of an approaching vessel does not appreciably change,

(ii) such risk may sometimes exist even when an appreciable bearing change is evident, particularly when approaching a very large vessel or a tow or when approaching a vessel at close range.

It's not a definition but lets assume it is for the purposes of exploring your interpretation of rule 17.

So would you say a stand on vessel must hold it's course if i or ii are true?

 

[Cruiser2B]

It's not a definition but lets assume it is for the purposes of exploring your interpretation of rule 17.

So would you say a stand on vessel must hold it's course if i or ii are true?

: def·i·ni·tion
Pronunciation: \ˌde-fə-ˈni-shən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English diffinicioun, from Anglo-French, from Latin definition-, definitio, from definire
Date: 14th century
2 a : a statement expressing the essential nature of something (source: Merriam-Webster)

The answer is yes during stage 2 of an anti-collision situation. If risk of collision does not exist, then there is no such need, other than the rule 2 observance of good seamanship that would prevent a vessel from doing anything that would create a risk of collision. In stage 1, risk of collision has not yet started to exist, so no need to stand on. In stage 3, the stand-on vessel is permitted to act and in stage 4, the stand-on vessel is required to act. Taken alone the colregs are vague - I don't think that issue is in dispute - however, it is possible to develop a good understanding of the colregs if one also reads one of the guides to colregs, such as Cockcroft's and Lameijer's excellent book.

 

[Ken_Irby]

In Greece

..the tripper boats (around 60-80ft loa) and the smaller inter-island ferries (of similar dimensions) assume complete right of way at all times because they are "commercial". if you are on the rhum line between their port of operation and the bay where they drop their customers off, they will sit on the horn continuously whether you are sailing or not, whether they are the overtaking vessel or not, whether they are the "give way" vessel or not. i suspect that the greek coastguard would support their claims too. the attitude seems to be "keep your little toy boat out of the way. we are trying to make a living here". no doubt on their way home in their battered fiat panda, they will blast at any delivery truck that dares to pull out of a side street into their path! a greek friend who manages a large charter base near athens, says that they more often than not just don't know the colregs, the boats just being handed down from father to son with not a commercial ticket in sight.
Chas on Kentrina's login so not necessarily her point of view.

 

[westernman]

There was a french boat a while back which got run over from behind by a Greek ferry when coming into a small port on an island.

Anyway, the basic conclusion so far has been that it was the yachts fault because:-

1) Its lights were not bright enough to be seen against the lights of the town

2) It should not have been there at the same time as the ferry

3) It should have got out of the way of the ferry because it is commercial.

If I see a Greek ferry behind me, I might just alter course to get out of its trajectory before checking the ColRegs.........