When to re arm hammar lifejackets?

[chubby]

We have two 275 N crewsaver lifejackets, never used in anger and checking them the Hammar firing head says replace after 2013, now at £45 a go, what in the pressure operated head can deteriorate after a set time? I gather soluble capsule type can absorb moisture and be less effective but re arming at a set period is expensive, just like replacing pristine flares etc, what do folks do?

 

[Robin]

We have two 275 N crewsaver lifejackets, never used in anger and checking them the Hammar firing head says replace after 2013, now at £45 a go, what in the pressure operated head can deteriorate after a set time? I gather soluble capsule type can absorb moisture and be less effective but re arming at a set period is expensive, just like replacing pristine flares etc, what do folks do?

I was unable to get 275N rearm kits in here the USA for my CREwsaver 275N jacket, nor can they even be shipped from the UK, but got a 175N one for SWMbO's 175 jacket from stock at West Marine USA, which leaves me using my old and unused Crewsaver 275n only as a spare for the dinghy or on board the big boat, for it's built in harness. USCG will not recognise it as acceptable amongst our required on board inventory so I bought a new jacket that they do accept and which can be re-armed when the need arises using a kit from Mustang in Canada who are the makers of the new West branded one I bought.

If it weren't for the local 'gators I might jump in and test the old one just to see if it still works on auto or if needs be by the manual overide! The new ones like wot I just bought now have a visual indicator to show it has not been used (this meets USCG rules) but it still has an expiry date In some ways I wish I had gone with one of the simpler cheaper disolving tablet version which have apparently been improved so as not to fire in heavy rain or spray like wot they used to. are these really improvements?? or just income generation?

 

[prv]

Hammar is distressingly expensive, and if I was starting again I'd buy UML instead. But you shouldn't be paying £45 - I've just checked and my replacements this year were £25.50 each (UML £5.25, in both cases add a couple of quid postage).

I do keep all my expiry-dated emergency stuff religiously up to date, along with chart corrections and plotter updates - put it down to OCD if you like . Though there's every chance that they'd work fine for quite a few years extra...

Pete

 

[Gwylan]

We have two 275 N crewsaver lifejackets, never used in anger and checking them the Hammar firing head says replace after 2013, now at £45 a go, what in the pressure operated head can deteriorate after a set time? I gather soluble capsule type can absorb moisture and be less effective but re arming at a set period is expensive, just like replacing pristine flares etc, what do folks do?

Just been through the same thing - at the end of last season. Very painful but not the sort of price you are listing.

suppose they put a date on there for a reason and its too late when you find out that you should have done the replacement.

We got the real thing, on line, from a place in Swansea - worth a google.

 

[Max K]

I was unable to get 275N rearm kits in here the USA for my CREwsaver 275N jacket, nor can they even be shipped from the UK, but got a 175N one for SWMbO's 175 jacket from stock at West Marine USA, which leaves me using my old and unused Crewsaver 275n only as a spare for the dinghy or on board the big boat, for it's built in harness. USCG will not recognise it as acceptable amongst our required on board inventory so I bought a new jacket that they do accept and which can be re-armed when the need arises using a kit from Mustang in Canada who are the makers of the new West branded one I bought.

If it weren't for the local 'gators I might jump in and test the old one just to see if it still works on auto or if needs be by the manual overide! The new ones like wot I just bought now have a visual indicator to show it has not been used (this meets USCG rules) but it still has an expiry date In some ways I wish I had gone with one of the simpler cheaper disolving tablet version which have apparently been improved so as not to fire in heavy rain or spray like wot they used to. are these really improvements?? or just income generation?

Can't see the problem with ordering packs from a UK chandlery for delivery in the US. Folks take them by air in hold baggage all the time.

Max.

 

[chubby]

Hammar is distressingly expensive, and if I was starting again I'd buy UML instead. But you shouldn't be paying £45 - I've just checked and my replacements this year were £25.50 each (UML £5.25, in both cases add a couple of quid postage).

I do keep all my expiry-dated emergency stuff religiously up to date, along with chart corrections and plotter updates - put it down to OCD if you like . Though there's every chance that they'd work fine for quite a few years extra...

Pete

The 275 kits are about £44-45 , the 150 are nearer 25/30, some years ago we talked ourselves into a couple of 275s to keep my bulk afloat, wouldn`t do it again: quite bulky and probably OTT unless you are carrying heavy kit etc, threads on this

I guess there is a general question about keeping gear in date, it won`t suddenly stop working on ED+1 but the manufacturers have to build in a safety margin for zero failure

 

[[70521]]

We have two 275 N crewsaver lifejackets, never used in anger and checking them the Hammar firing head says replace after 2013, now at £45 a go, what in the pressure operated head can deteriorate after a set time? I gather soluble capsule type can absorb moisture and be less effective but re arming at a set period is expensive, just like replacing pristine flares etc, what do folks do?

Find some water, jump in.

Replace the parts.

 

[prv]

The 275 kits are about £44-45 , the 150 are nearer 25/30

Surely the auto heads are the same? You don't need to replace the gas cylinder, just the auto mechanism.

some years ago we talked ourselves into a couple of 275s to keep my bulk afloat, wouldn`t do it again: quite bulky and probably OTT unless you are carrying heavy kit etc, threads on this

Indeed, I don't think it works like that. The better-upholstered gentleman generally floats better than the skinny one - I had a very large friend at school who could just bob around in the pool without treading water at all. The 275 was designed for soldiers in landing craft loaded down with weapons and ammunition, and then adopted by oil rig maintenance men with heavy toolbelts. Some say it works better in big waves, which may be true. But it's not needed just for one's personal heavy load

Pete

 

[prv]

Find some water, jump in.

Replace the parts.

That just means you have to buy a new cylinder as well as a new auto head.

Pete

 

[Robin]

Can't see the problem with ordering packs from a UK chandlery for delivery in the US. Folks take them by air in hold baggage all the time.

Max.

Not what they told me when I tried to order. Yes I could get somebody to bring one over for me but at the time I needed them nobody was planning a visit. I tried ordering through specialist suppliers here to the superyacht industry who told me the same thing.
USCG rules are weird. They do not accept CE markings, everything has to be stamped USCG approved. Solas is not accepted even whether on it's own or in conjunction with a CE mark. Even were I to get the Hammar re-arm kit and install it, unless it is the latest type that has a visible telltale signal that the unit has/has not been activated and the cylinder has not been fired automatically or manually then it is not accepted as a complying jacket. Even IF it met those criteria they do not like or approve built in harnesses as there is a risk you could be trapped and unable to get free in a capsize scenario. Harness tethers are only allowed if they are very short, a few feet IIRC. I have a double ended tether with short and long attachment options, plus a device to cut the harness free which is tied to the jacket just in case of the Poseidon effect . BTW they sell top of the range EU Crewsaver and Spinlock CE stuff here in the marine stores like West Marine that is CE/Solas approved BUT it says very clearly in their specs 'NOT USCG Approved' and says ' ideal for use on superyachts or vessels that may wish to cruise to Europe or maybe wish to race in certain Offshore (ORC) events like the Fastnet or similar. DUMB in the extreme and very NIH (not invented here) I suspect but we can comply by carrying very basic, bulky foam filled PVC jackets ( cost just a few dollars, even available in Walmart). Carrying these on board makes us USCG legal and we can still wear our own but they (being unapproved) just don't count towards the required number we must have on board. We currently carry a shedload of these cheapo jackets in various sizes to cover visitors . I put one lot (6) in a 'lifejacket stowage bag' that doubles as a softseat in the RIB just so as a) to comply with what has to be in the RIB and b) to get them out of the way in the cabin. We have another 6 compliant cheapos in a lifejacket stowage bag down below in the forecabin (that we don't usually use except for stowage), but have our personal automatic ones with built in harnesses ready to put quickly on stowed in a convenient hanging locker by the companionway. We are a US registered vessel ( SWMBO Is a Yank) and can be boarded at any time by any number of different law Enforcement agencies from the State wildlife commission, via the local sheriffs, to the USCG, Homeland Security and Customs mobs. Any of these can board to inspect us for rules compliance and if they wish insist we terminate our voyage and return whence we came, even if it was only a few miles down the Ditch (ICW) to go fishing. I suppose if the UK had as many bunches of really idiot boaters like wot they do round here where their first priority supplies they put on board for the day are the huge coolers of beers, then it would be understandable, RULES, darn rules and often DUMB rules enforced by armed folk with a badge and attitude.

 

[prv]

unless it is the latest type that has a visible telltale signal that the unit has/has not been activated

They've had that indicator for some years; any unit you bought without it would be long out of date anyway.

RULES, darn rules and often DUMB rules enforced by armed folk with a badge and attitude.

"Land of the free"

Pete

 

[[70521]]

That just means you have to buy a new cylinder as well as a new auto head.

Correct, but a huge amount of fun.

 

[xeitosaphil]

Indeed, I don't think it works like that. The better-upholstered gentleman generally floats better than the skinny one - I had a very large friend at school who could just bob around in the pool without treading water at all. The 275 was designed for soldiers in landing craft loaded down with weapons and ammunition, and then adopted by oil rig maintenance men with heavy toolbelts. Some say it works better in big waves, which may be true. But it's not needed just for one's personal heavy load

Pete

Pete this is probably all true, but my understanding rightly or wrongly is that a 275N lifejacket is more likely to be self righting due to the added buoyancy, so you are more likely to float the right way up if you are Unconscious?

At least that's how Crewsaver seems to put it over.

Philip

 

[Robin]

They've had that indicator for some years; any unit you bought without it would be long out of date anyway.



"Land of the free"

Pete

5 hours and many years behind GMT over here I'm afraid. Auto inflating lifejackets in general have only fairly recently been considered acceptable as part of the required on board 'armory' that can be stored ready for use, previously they were only 'counted/countable' if actually being worn by the person they were intended and were adjusted for, they were really considered to be for close to shore or lake/river fishing use in . Then they accepted them for offshore but only with no harness, now grudgingly it seems built in harnesses are allowed but with restrictions on tether legths. considering the large numbers of foreign boats around here (we have 2 Canadian, one Australian anchored off our condo right now) in the ICW that is weird as most real cruisers as opposed to daysailors will go for the Euro come Solas type full auto stuff. Certainly the Canadians do as they usually have Mustang Canadian made jackets. THe really daft thing is that they sell the Crewsaver and SpInlock top of the range stuff extolling it's superiority, but say it is intended for crews who might be going to work on say Med based superyachts or who might wish to take part in offshore races where ORC rules apply. Such superior gear is obviously way too dangerous to be used whilst motoring up/down the Ditch although they allow their use if worn but just won't count them when checking what number/type of jackets are carried on board. just goes to show in my book how badly considered written rules make a mockery of old fashioned common sense, but then that is in very short supply here so maybe writing rules for the lowest common denominator is understandable. Then of course the rules are administered by jobsworths with uniforms, badges, guns and often big shoulder chips.

 

[Giblets]

We got the real thing, on line, from a place in Swansea - worth a google.

Possibly these people: http://www.lifejackets.co.uk/

Just ordered a few re-arming kits (UML type) for our spare guest lifejackets from them. The expiry date must be a new thing as the original ones had nothing marked on the cartridges. We did, however, have one go off down below during our trip back from Cherbourg last September.

 

[blackbeard]

Pete this is probably all true, but my understanding rightly or wrongly is that a 275N lifejacket is more likely to be self righting due to the added buoyancy, so you are more likely to float the right way up if you are Unconscious?

At least that's how Crewsaver seems to put it over.

Philip

So far as I can make out - and I haven't tried, is there anyone who has? - use of the larger lifejacket could make it more difficult to swim, and just about impossible to use a boarding ladder (such as that in a liferaft). Which won't matter near an oil rig as there will be a guard boat ready to rescue you, but otherwise could be irritating. Bad enough with just a 150 N job; a 275 N jacket will not necessarily be safer and could turn out to be less safe.
Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I will stick with the 150 N lifejacket for normal yacht use.

(Though I must add that some friends who are built much more heavily than I am, or who are disabled, have concluded that the 275N jacket is the one for them, and I wouldn't argue with that.)

 

[Robin]

They list what I was wanting but although they say they can ship lifejackets worldwide, the USA is not on their standard list on their webpages. At around 50 pounds GBP plus shipping they are expensive and in any event the re-armed jacket would still be unacceptable to USCG as it will still not have a USCG approval stamp on it (They do not recognise CE or Solas approvals) . I bought a brand new USCG approved Hammar activated jacket for under $200 in the end so my problem is solved even if there is plenty of residual irritation. I keep my old unit with out of date Hammar for use in the dinghy where if stopped and inspected we also have more than enough cheapo 'approved' chinese made junk in a bag kept permanently in the dinghy to satisfy the anality of the rules which allow me regardless to actually wear the unacceptable stuff just as long as there are still enough acceptable types available as well.:disgust:

Added PS My new and USA approved jacket is the 150N type by my choice as I had so many problems with updating the 275N I bought back in the UK.

 

[westernman]

Where is a good place to order the Hammar Auto heads from (type A1)? I have plenty of spare cylinders, but all the auto heads are time expired.