When is too close to close

[pmagowan]

I had a ski instructor once who called all the people 'ants' on the slope. His philosophy was that if there are 2 routes to take and you want to go down the right one you should stop at the top of the left one. All the ants will go down the left one when they see you and then you can go down the other in peace and quiet! There is a psychology to it.

 

[Neeves]

I had a ski instructor once who called all the people 'ants' on the slope. His philosophy was that if there are 2 routes to take and you want to go down the right one you should stop at the top of the left one. All the ants will go down the left one when they see you and then you can go down the other in peace and quiet! There is a psychology to it.

We used to call them penguins

 

[Crisby]

Fishing for your dinner in the med is a great way to loose weight in my experience!

For us, having a coffee ashore is as much about the ambience of the place and people watching as it is about drinking coffee, haven’t had one in a paper cup for a long time!

 

[sailaboutvic]

We don't have this problem in Australia, which makes me wonder why so many Australians are so attracted to and spend so much time in.......

but Vic - maybe they too wanted to do some shopping and have a coffee.?

We really don't understand this fascination, even once, with buying a cup of coffee (at some unnecessary expense and possible (paper cup) environmental damage). Is it so difficult to make a cup of decent coffee (or 3), at anchor (or at sea), and relax and enjoy. Even better with a freshly made apple doughnut. You are liveaboards, know the in and outs - what is wrong with shopping via the dinghy - you'll all be going to the barber next!

And I'm called a 'snowflake' for wanting a hot shower or 2! - which I might cut down to one a day but I'd not be so keen to sacrifice the home (boat) made fresh apple doughnut (and the leisurely cup of coffer, or 3).



Another thing I notice - no-one in this sort of thread (and the one living on 4,500 euro) mentions fishing. Admittedly we only liveaboard for 3-5 month but one of the pleasures is, or are, fresh fish; tuna, spanish mackerel, mahi mahi, lobster, oysters, mussels, abalone, etc - admittedly we are only allowed to catch a limited number of lobster now, I think its 2 in hand and 2 on board (and I think abalone overrated - against the desire of my wife) and we need a licence for fish, lobster and abalone - but it is hardly onerous.

The bigger problem I find, being a carnivore, is the absence of red meat!

And the attractions of the Med are......??? rapidly diminishing!!!

Jonathan

Jonathan I had to smile at the posting .

In our case we went on the quay because we needed to do a very big shop , we just sailed there from another island because we know there was a good supermarket well stock and not inflated prices A lot of the small island have small shop some very limited stock .

Once arrived we found the closes anchorages didn’t have enough room there was seven boats which the night before the anchorage wasn’t that big

lucky for us there was one spot we could get into on the quay ,
we did our shop and very unlike us we stop for a coffee .

Although in our defends it was 34c and we had just walked 10 min with back pack as well as shopping bags in both hands .

Funny enough we did buy cakes which we had with our second cup on board you be please to know .

Also that was the first coffee we had out of you don't count ones we had after the odd evening meal out this year .


Fishing in the Med , you having a laugh , although I can't fish to save my life , two years ago I caught five tuna within a few hours , I can only think I make have sail through several million tunas to catch five trying to escape the over fished Med .

Sorry to say the Med is fished out although now and then people do have photos with a good size fish they caught .


Regard why Australia come to the Med , you have to ask you fellow country men but I been told time and time again that to buy the same type of boat back home would cost them two arms and at less three legs plus the rules on sailing And having a boat is something they like to talk about but they're just not another time .

They also like the Med as there so much history different culture and so many country's to visit ,

Also been told there some very over crowed areas back in Australia, I guess it the same all the world around , too many boats .

the only down side there no shark s or sea water croc . Only joking about that bit .


Most of what you read in the liveaboard forum are from people complaining about charter boats and packed out anchorages the areas there are talking about very popular sailing areas . As I wrote not long ago,
These pockets are less then one percent compared to the size of the Med .

Here a offer you won't get very often why not you and your wife pack a bag and fly over for a couple of weeks , as long as you not allergic to our cat and judge for yourself , we get on very well with the Ozzies we have quite a lot of Ozzie friends .

It's a genuine offer.


Enclose photo that was taken of our anchorages over the last few weeks , has you can see there are very over crowed with charter boats .

 

[Neeves]

To sit in the shade for a while ? Maybe use the wifi ? Chat to the locals ? Put some money into the local economy ?

.

So..... go to the Med for the weather - and sit in the shade, support the local economy - and use the WiFi and put some money into the economy - quite how much does coffee cost?

My post was 'slightly' tongue in cheek!

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

Vic,

I'm pleased someone smiled

Too often there is no levity.

Oddly I do read about those in the Med and seldom, never, does anyone mention a location and describe how close it is or accessible to some cultural site and few mention food nor the different culture. We know its there, we see the adverts, but it never gets even a tiny mention - as if people sail from marina to marina or crowded anchorage to crowded anchorage for the ambience of the ..... marina and the party next door.

The emphasis, and the focus, is commonly on the negatives (and there do seem a lot) - well actually only the charter boats and the problems of anchoring - and these do seem to be high on the list of dislikes.

Those attached images could be here, except the yachts featured tend to be bigger than here, more MoBos (and our architecture is, much, less attractive) but enticing - and not the images one conjures up from reading the posts (and other threads).


Vic - a very generous offer and I have no doubt, at all, that it is both generous and genuine. I am sure the idea of having fresh apple doughnut, nor even plain (well sugar and cinnamon) doughnuts even crossed your mind - you seem a genuine sort of guy. Maybe later and we would ensure you have fresh doughnuts with your coffee - but sadly no freshly caught seafood

I'm just glad you have a sense of humour.

Jonathan

edit

Over crowded in Australia,:- Sydney Harbour any summer weekend, Whitundays, Moreton Bay - but we have thousand of miles of coastline - and if we see another yacht at anchor (outside the obvious) - its unusual. The biggest fear is hitting whales!

I thought I'd add

Coming from Scotland and then HK we marvel, not that we do not have so many countries to visit - but that you can sail for days (and days) and still be in the same country. If you sail north you are into the tropics, just south of the equator and sail to 40 degrees south (and that's just N-S) . Its a big place. Lacking in that essential mix of European history (we 'immigrants' bring our culture) - but we do have those sharks and crocs - and critically - the wine (what more do you need?)

 

[TonyMS]

Another thing I notice - no-one in this sort of thread (and the one living on 4,500 euro) mentions fishing. Admittedly we only liveaboard for 3-5 month but one of the pleasures is, or are, fresh fish; tuna, spanish mackerel, mahi mahi, lobster, oysters, mussels, abalone, etc - admittedly we are only allowed to catch a limited number of lobster now, I think its 2 in hand and 2 on board (and I think abalone overrated - against the desire of my wife) and we need a licence for fish, lobster and abalone - but it is hardly onerous.

The bigger problem I find, being a carnivore, is the absence of red meat!

And the attractions of the Med are......??? rapidly diminishing!!!

Jonathan

If you know how to catch fish in the Med, please share your expertise. Along the Algarve, we frequently caught mackerel, and occasionally sea bass and small tuna. But since passing Gibraltar, nada.

On the other hand, in Greece, we have a rib of beef, costing 10 euros a kilo, about once a week. Undercooked on the Cobb, it satisfies our need for red meat and is also one of our cheapest meals.

TonyMS

 

[sailaboutvic]

Over crowded in Australia,:- Sydney Harbour any summer weekend, Whitundays, Moreton Bay - but we have thousand of miles of coastline - and if we see another yacht at anchor (outside the obvious) - its unusual. The biggest fear is hitting whales!

)

Just like the Med then , a few pocket within thousand of miles of coast line
Without the croc sharks oh and the jumping large rabbit (joey)

 

[sailaboutvic]

If you know how to catch fish in the Med, please share your expertise. Along the Algarve, we frequently caught mackerel, and occasionally sea bass and small tuna. But since passing Gibraltar, nada.

On the other hand, in Greece, we have a rib of beef, costing 10 euros a kilo, about once a week. Undercooked on the Cobb, it satisfies our need for red meat and is also one of our cheapest meals.

TonyMS

Tony will you still be around when we sail back in late Oct ,?.
We decided to head for Tunisia for a few months this winter .
Also R and M will be flying back from where ever their left their boat in the world , I think Cuba?
unless they sail back to the cribs , now to spend some of Sept with us .
I already know what they going to ask us and he answer is no , Pacific not for us , but you could do it in our place

 

[Neeves]

If you know how to catch fish in the Med, please share your expertise. Along the Algarve, we frequently caught mackerel, and occasionally sea bass and small tuna. But since passing Gibraltar, nada.

On the other hand, in Greece, we have a rib of beef, costing 10 euros a kilo, about once a week. Undercooked on the Cobb, it satisfies our need for red meat and is also one of our cheapest meals.

TonyMS

Sorry but our knowledge of fishing is limited to waters that actually have fish - Australia's east coast and Tasmania. I cannot say we have any skill, just trawl and pull one on board, it lasts for a day or so and then repeat. Lobster needs a pot, licence and knowledge on where to lay the pot - but on the isolated west coast of Tasmania - you soon get tired of lobster. Your meat prices are not to different to ours (yours are a bit cheaper) - except super markets can be a bit thin on the ground or too far from an anchorage - our coasts are long and sparsely populated apart from the the few cities and big towns.

Its great cruising but a long way from anywhere.

But getting back to the thread

If you steer clear of the State capital cities and the Whitsundays the problem of 'when is close too close' simply does not occur. It is unusual to see yachts at anchor, at all. There is a migration from down south to the tropics (Whitsundays) in the autumn which reverses in the spring and then there are a few more yachts about (and lots of whales) - but you would be unusual to see 3 at anchor at a time. Tasmania is becoming more popular, in our summer, but it would be crowded if you saw 7 yachts all together in one anchorage. You do need to be fairly self sufficient, have a bike (or 2) and/or have a decent fridge - and the idea of having a coffee taking in the ambience - not here.

Jonathan

 

[sailaboutvic]

Jonathan Most people who contribute on the forum that comment on the over crowing in the Med are based in the Ionian, and with out doubt the Ionian is well packed , between June and the end of Aug if you removed half the yacht the place would still be crowed , but although we all moan what would we do for fun ? .
I think everyone who sail there would agree dally entertainment is watching people anchor or moor up ,
we be having a BBQ on board and having one conversation when some one will say quick look at this your missing the fun .
Of cause it no longer fun when you wake up at 2am and it's blowing old boots and boats are dragging all around you , or when the fun happen to be a boat hitting you while he trying to moor .

BUT as I said this only a very tiny part of the Med or should I say Greece .
The problem with the Ionian is , it known to have light winds flat seas and calm windless nights , so a lot of novice sailor charter there , some after just a week or two full I love with it and end up buying a yacht and base it there , other sail there from all over Europe and become summer time liveaboard and the place just can't take it .

You can read in another posting people complaining about the pontoon being put out in Sovita , I knew sovita when it was a lovely quite bay a few restaurants and in Aug ten or so boat use to moor up to the quay for a quiet night and a enjoyable meal , now there (someone correct me ) five pontoon and another report to been put out ,by the restaurant all illegal what left of the quay has hire motor boats the anchorage in the middle of the bay which wasn't that big in the first place now much small is packed ,

When you read all this outsiders do get the impression the Med is over crowed it's not the Med but parts of Greece .
But it a bit like saying the The British isles is because of the some parts of the south coast are over flowing with boats .

There still is pockets of anchorage in the Ionian where you can anchor and have it almost for your self , no I not telling

If you just sailed 100 miles south and they would see a very different part of Greece .

I wrote not long we anchored with over 50 boats at Sounion in the Aegean, now them who know the place will also know it close to Athens which have some very big marinas house charter fleets and Sounion is within a few hours sails with the temple over looking the anchorage , all lit up at night and a very sheltered anchorage it very popular but any one not knowing the place would think as you and some other that the whole of the Med must be the same , when just another day sail and you have scenes from the photos I posted .
The best time to sail the Ionian is Very early spring and late autumn, the place is almost empty with just the odd few boats and at time seeing no one for days on end .
We be passing in. Oct maybe Nov and looking forward to having the place for our self for a few weeks .

 

[Neeves]

Thanks Vic,

But you really must stop posting like this, it is really bad form and you are simply going to antagonise.

But sit back and have another glass of wine

If you keep telling like it is you are going to encourage more and more people to visit - and like the Whitsundays - it will be destroyed by its own success.

I do confess the image given was of Centre Parts on the water or Blackpool Beach - you are confirming this is limited to a few, well known spots, and that the rest of Greece can still be a pleasure. It is something of a relief to hear this - as I did wonder at the taste of those who frequent the area - its reassuring to know that maybe they are more discerning and the complaints are not representative of nationwide!

Unfortunately the Whitsundays has one season, now - our winter. In the summer it is part of the cyclone belt and out insurance would not cover us - and its not a risk worth taking (when there are plenty of other places to explore - in splendid isolation).

Jonathan

 

[sailaboutvic]

My posting wasn't meant to be hostile to anyone , I sure 99% thoese who sail in the Ionian would agree with every word .
There always be one percent who want to make an argument out of everything
Too early for wine , we just having breakfast ,

 

[Neeves]

sorry Vic, an attempt at levity that failed.

You have made it sound so attractive the doubters might be convinced to visit - and reduce those places of tranquility

I cannot, seriously, imagine anyone will have been upset.

Apologies

Jonathan

 

[sailaboutvic]

sorry Vic, an attempt at levity that failed.

You have made it sound so attractive the doubters might be convinced to visit - and reduce those places of tranquility

I cannot, seriously, imagine anyone will have been upset.

Apologies

Jonathan

No problem , you had me read back what I posted in case I may had said something that sounded offences ,
I know my sty of writing can at time be read in a very different way then what it was to mean .
That's why you often see my post been edit , where I reread and through that just don't sound right .

 

[Neeves]

Don't worry Vic,

I have understood all of those of your posts I have read - if I were to have a query - I would ask (its one of the beauties of the internet - its easy, quick and possible).

Relax - and have that glass of wine, or 3, at a more appropriate time (Its easy to forget you are all so far behind (in time).

And thanks for the time in correcting my false impressions of Greek anchorages or anchoring.

Jonathan