When is a permanent marina berth not a permanent marina berth ?

[GuyS.]

Back in July when our annual contract at Chichester Marina was due to expire I decided to move the boat. Chichester is a great place, the staff are fantastic but locking in and out can get a bit dull after a while. Its fine if you are going away for a few days but if you just want to pop out for a couple of hours on a sunny weekend having to queue for over an hour can soon lose its novelty.

Consequently I decided to consider other berthing options. The Hamble is a bit too far in the car and I really wanted access to the water 24/7, I like Chi harbour which made Northney the favourite. We popped along and enquired if they had any full time berths available, which they claimed they did, so a week later, new contract signed we moved the boat. When we arrived we were told the berth we currently occupied belonged to another boat which was away, and we would be allocated our berth in the next week or so.

Anyhow, here's the moan coming, still no permanent berth. 8 weeks down the road the boat has been moved 4 times to different spots, each for a couple of weeks at a time. The first I know about it is when we go to down to Northney and the boat isn't where we left it. I raised my concern recently with the berthing officer about why we didn't have a permanent 'home' and was told in no uncertain terms that no boat does and they all get moved all the time. As an argument, this doesn't make sense at all and also why then do MDL provide those nice little name tags screwed to the dock ?

I'm not that precious that I prefer port side too or starboard, I don't feel the need to erect hanging baskets on my pontoon or have a nice mat with a picture of a cat to step onto when we dock but I do feel that I have been mislead slightly and I certainly get a bit twitchy when the yard move my boat without my permission or telling me its been moved.

Am I being too anal about this ? I know we only rent a space to park the boat, but what do others think ? Is this the norm for all MDL marina's, one great big game of musical chairs or am I within my rights to stomp in and throw some toys ?

 

[prv]

A permanent berth should be just that. They usually retain the right to move you if necessary, but it should be a very rare thing - every few years, not every few weeks.

Pete

 

[DAKA]

I cant believe you have signed a contract without first agreeing which is your berth.

Technically almost everyone is indeed floating but individual negotiations about where you are going should take place.

Need to check depth at springs at northney too.

the 2nd and 3rd pontoons on the right on entry have nasty cross currents and some fingers are sods to get into.

I used to insert on the agreement my 'verbally agreed' berth , that way if they ever wanted to move me I could demand to be immediately released from the contract.

Northerny isnt really 24 access either, guarantee on a busy weekend raggies usually get stuck in the channel +/- 1 LW

 

[GuyS.]

I cant believe you have signed a contract without first agreeing which is your berth.

Technically almost everyone is indeed floating but individual negotiations about where you are going should take place.

Need to check depth at springs at northney too.

the 2nd and 3rd pontoons on the right on entry have nasty cross currents and some fingers are sods to get into.

I used to insert on the agreement my 'verbally agreed' berth , that way if they ever wanted to move me I could demand to be immediately released from the contract.

Northerny isnt really 24 access either, guarantee on a busy weekend raggies usually get stuck in the channel +/- 1 LW

Yeah, not getting anything in writing I agree was a basic schoolboy error but it was intimated to me that we would be given a choice of 3 or 4 available berths. Tide wise we are ok, only draw 0.7m and have already made sure we can get in at LWS, although as you mentioned a fin keeler was hard aground in the entrance.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Am I being too anal about this ? I know we only rent a space to park the boat, but what do others think ? Is this the norm for all MDL marina's, one great big game of musical chairs or am I within my rights to stomp in and throw some toys ?

I'm afraid I've only got experience of Premier, rather than MDL - but at Premier the letter of the contract gives you a licence to park your boat, but explicitly does not state a specific berth. But as Daka says, the practical reality is that you tend to hang on to your berth for as long as you want it; they generally don't move you without you knowing about it.

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all - like you, I'd be v p1ssed off if my boat was being repeatedly moved without my knowledge.

You've actually got a perfect opportunity to sort this out right now - the boat show. Go along and have a go at someone senior on the mdl stand. Very effective way to resolve disputes on neutral ground (I'm speaking from experience).

Best of luck - hope you get it sorted soon.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[GuyS.]

I'm afraid I've only got experience of Premier, rather than MDL - but at Premier the letter of the contract gives you a licence to park your boat, but explicitly does not state a specific berth. But as Daka says, the practical reality is that you tend to hang on to your berth for as long as you want it; they generally don't move you without you knowing about it.

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all - like you, I'd be v p1ssed off if my boat was being repeatedly moved without my knowledge.

You've actually got a perfect opportunity to sort this out right now - the boat show. Go along and have a go at someone senior on the mdl stand. Very effective way to resolve disputes on neutral ground (I'm speaking from experience).

Best of luck - hope you get it sorted soon.

Cheers
Jimmy

Cheers Jimmy, excellent advice

 

[n.herring]

I have been with MDL for 25 years in 4 different marinas and never had this problem, always given a berth and stuck with it unles we have asked to move. If I was you I would speak to the marina manager and if that does not work find the next up the management chain. Agree with Jimmy there is always senior management at the boat show, I think they will be aghast at the way you have been treated, Neil

 

[rafiki_]

I'm afraid I've only got experience of Premier, rather than MDL - but at Premier the letter of the contract gives you a licence to park your boat, but explicitly does not state a specific berth. But as Daka says, the practical reality is that you tend to hang on to your berth for as long as you want it; they generally don't move you without you knowing about it.

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all - like you, I'd be v p1ssed off if my boat was being repeatedly moved without my knowledge.

You've actually got a perfect opportunity to sort this out right now - the boat show. Go along and have a go at someone senior on the mdl stand. Very effective way to resolve disputes on neutral ground (I'm speaking from experience).

Best of luck - hope you get it sorted soon.

Cheers
Jimmy

Jimmy, does this feel like déjà vu? Your PV experience?

 

[volvopaul]

Generally my mdl based customers are moored in the same berth year after year so I know exactly where I'm going when I turn up to service that particular boat.

I've been an mdl berth holder in past years and was never moved about only at my request .

For what it's worth as a contractor I find northney not my favourite place to work in, I get the impression that the on site companies are favoured, based on the way I've been spoken to in the past.

I was once charged the contractors fee for a ten minute visit, no way would they release the keys till I'd paid my dues, which was obviously passed on to my client.

I'd say they are being very unreasonable and took your money knowing they didn't have a specific berth for your boat.

 

[thomshap]

That would really annoy me, you boat is being moved because you're in someone else's berth - seems they have a permanent spot so why can't you.

We looked at Sparks once but the drive on and off Hayling island put us off, plus Chichester have been very good to us over the years, and with the exception of a little spotty on the waiting pontoon last weekend, the service is pretty good.

 

[gjgm]

This is nonsense;nonsense by MDL. I can understand if you had a temporary berth, but not each week. Daka might have a point legally, but Northney are being "naughty" to say the least..
Not sure you will find any head honcho on your day at boatshow, but I think you might ask MDL if they would like you to be able to paint a happy ending, or whether they like this kind of reputation on the forum.
I think MDL switched managers about in the Spring. Cant recall who is at Northney, but maybe in the spirit of things you should approach him first( never mind the berthing manager) and give him the opportunity to resolve it.
I have never been moved at MDL. If SWMBO doesnt get the evening sun, they'll have to demolish one of the residential houses

 

[BlueSkyNick]

This is nonsense;nonsense by MDL. I can understand if you had a temporary berth, but not each week. Daka might have a point legally, but Northney are being "naughty" to say the least..
Not sure you will find any head honcho on your day at boatshow, but I think you might ask MDL if they would like you to be able to paint a happy ending, or whether they like this kind of reputation on the forum.
I think MDL switched managers about in the Spring. Cant recall who is at Northney, but maybe in the spirit of things you should approach him first( never mind the berthing manager) and give him the opportunity to resolve it.
I have never been moved at MDL. If SWMBO doesnt get the evening sun, they'll have to demolish one of the residential houses

I can't speak for MDL in particular, but in general, I agree it is nonsense. Definitely discuss it with the Manager..

Daka has a point (as always) but is not correct. The marina is very unlikely to commit to a particular berth ad infinitum, and I would be amazed to see it in the contract. They sometimes need to make changes because berths that are vacated and new boats arriving are not the same size.

We try to allocate the most suitable berth when a new boat arrives during the year, then replan in the spring when we know the total leavers on 31st March and incomers on 1st April. At this time we might want to move a boat then not change it thereafter unless really necessary. We would never do this without prior discussion with the berth holder.

There are a number of permutations of preferences:
- blown on or off the pontoon finger
- port or starboard side to, bow or stern in
- near the shore end of the pier or further out
- morning or evening sun
- near friends

Apart from this, it is very straightforward !!

 

[AdeOlly]

Very surprised to hear this. We spent four years at Northney on annual berths, and prior to that for two years the three main summer months. In those non-annual stays we were shuffled around as you have been, but once we went annual we never moved (we were C31 - lovely berth with a view to the entrance and across the harbour) until we changed boats when they reckoned we would be better off on B nearer the ramp, and I didn't really get much of a choice. We had already decided to decamp so didn't really argue it.

Much of the marina has been dredged the past 2-3 yrs, as has the entrance channel so depths are not a problem for a mobo, even at LWS, but be careful with the tide which can sweep you across the entrance channel onto the mud, esp on the ebb. Stick to well within the channel markers north of where the Sweare Deep splits to Emsworth. Currents in the marina were never a problem.

 

[GuyS.]

Thanks everyone for their replies and confirming my own feelings. First port of call then will be to make contact with the Marina Manager to see if he/she can sort this out. I'll report back once I have some news.

 

[Golden Time]

That would really annoy me, you boat is being moved because you're in someone else's berth - seems they have a permanent spot so why can't you.

+1, this is exactly what I was thinking? If the Marina has a policy that no-one has a permanent berth, why are you being moved out of someone elses, surely they should berth in the space that they move you to. Sounds like double standards to me :s

Its a bit like working in a "hot desk" office, you can be sat at one desk, walk out and come back and someone is at that desk, so you take up the next desk. You dont ask the person to get out of your space, because you werent in it when they came in.

How are they moving the boat around the marina? :s

 

[Lakesailor]

Could it be because the boat doesn't draw much and the incoming boats need more depth?
Not a justification, but perhaps a reason.
I wonder if you could negotiate a shallower berth on a permanent basis?
Do the upper management chain know the marina manager is pratting about like this?

 

[GuyS.]

To answer a couple of questions, I think like most marina's they move boats around by coming along side in a dory/rib and moving it with that. Lakesailor raises an interesting point regarding access and draught but in this case i've had to move for both motorboats and yachts.

Anyway, good news. I now have a permanent berth .

An email to marina manager Carl Jarmaine explaining my grievances was replied immediately, followed up by a call from the berthing manager offering me a permanent space if it was acceptable.

So a big thumbs up from me for the staff at MDL Northney for taking my grievience seriously and acting incredibly promptly. I'm not sure why I hadn't been offered this space earlier but am happy to accept their apologies that it was a genuine admin error.

 

[DAKA]

I can't speak for MDL in particular, but in general, I agree it is nonsense. Definitely discuss it with the Manager..

Daka has a point (as always) but is not correct. The marina is very unlikely to commit to a particular berth ad infinitum, and I would be amazed to see it in the contract. They sometimes need to make changes !!

just a petty point nicck in the interests of completeness as I think you have misread my post.
You are absolutely correct that marinas don't include the berth number but as you know it is usually agreed which berth is the home berth.

I manually write on the contract my berth number before I sign.

If you needed to move me and found a suitable replacement then find no problem.BUT if a marina moved my boat to under the lift out crane where I had to walk a plank to get on and off or only 2ft deep LWS then I would object and believe that by inserting a berth number on the contract it would be enough to prevent a marina from taking me to court for non completion of contract if I move marinas midterm. Same as buying a new car, ALWAYS write the colour on the agreement or they will deliver any old colour that isn't selling well!

 

[BlueSkyNick]

just a petty point nicck in the interests of completeness as I think you have misread my post.
You are absolutely correct that marinas don't include the berth number but as you know it is usually agreed which berth is the home berth.

I manually write on the contract my berth number before I sign.

If you needed to move me and found a suitable replacement then find no problem.BUT if a marina moved my boat to under the lift out crane where I had to walk a plank to get on and off or only 2ft deep LWS then I would object and believe that by inserting a berth number on the contract it would be enough to prevent a marina from taking me to court for non completion of contract if I move marinas midterm. Same as buying a new car, ALWAYS write the colour on the agreement or they will deliver any old colour that isn't selling well!

its not a petty point, its actually quite important. We wouldnt allocate a specific berth before you sign, and you writing it on the contract would be totally irrelevent. I dont believe we are unique on this.

If somebody has a complaint about a particular berth we would listen sympathetically and make best endeavours to resolve the issue, which is why I suggested the OP take the matter up. If we fail to respond one way or another, we run the risk of berth holders leaving, which we dont want to happen (although there is a very small number of exceptions).

 

[Firefly625]

Very glade MDL Northney resolved OP's issue, I do think that was an unusual situation and TBH the first time I had found my boat moved I would have gone to the office and insisted I was not moved again....
We have a "permanent" (with our name on it!) berth at MDL Mercury but for an 8m boat we are sat on a 10m pontoon.... now if Mercury does every fill up we do understand we will be asked to vacate our berth and move to an 8m one.... but until that time we enjoy a nice big stable pontoon in a great position,,,, only issue we have had this season is our view has been somewhat diminished by an SC35 being alongside.... can't have it all.