When is a ketch not a ketch

[Plan_B]

I was taught, many moons ago, that on a yawl the helmsmans position is in front of the mizzen, and on a ketch it is behind the mizzen - and the helmsman 'ketches ' the water off the sail down the back of his neck!!

I have just bought what is described as /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gifa ketch that has the wheel in front of the mizzen. So, have I got it wrong or been wrongly taught??

Regards

DD

 

[Sonnamara]

I was always taught that on a yawl the mizzen mast is aft of the rudder whereas on a ketch it is forward of the rudder.

 

[Ships_Cat]

On a yawl the rudder stock is forward of the mizzen mast and on a ketch the rudder stock is aft of the mizzen.

An easy yawl to see that on because of the long overhangs is the Hinckley Bermuda 40 which is a very well known design and a google is sure to produce some photos.

John

 

[Abigail]

I was always in agreement with Sonnamara - basically on a yawl the mizzen is aft of the steering mechanism - and hence the extra long overhang of the mizzen boom

 

[jerryat]

Yep, that's correct!! At least, like you, it's what I've always been told.

 

[FWB]

Dictionary...Ketch-- mizzen infront of Rudderpost, Yawl--mizzen behind Rudderpost.

 

[ashanta]

A yawl has the mast behind the rudder and a Ketch's mast is in front of the rudder. They used to say the "steerage" which is why you may have assumed the steering position. Take a look at a yawl and you will clearly see the difference.

Regards.

Peter.

 

[Plan_B]

Re: I think thats it then ...

... the mizzen is definately forward of the rudder on my boat and there isn't much boom overhang at the stern. One of the yachts in the marina has the mast mounted close to the stern and nearly all his mizzen boom out over the back - I have to dodge it every time I try to berth! This must be a yawl.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Regards

DD

 

[Cornishman]

Admiralty Manual of Seamanship Vol 1 1951:

...if the after mast were the smaller ...the vessel would be called a "ketch" if her mizzen mast were stepped before the tiller, and a "yawl" if it were stepped over or abaft the tiller head.

Sounds a bit old fashioned, but I guess the meaning is clear enough.

 

[Rowana]

[ QUOTE ]
...if the after mast were the smaller

[/ QUOTE ]

Next question - What is it if the after mast is the taller??

I should know, but I'm too bloody lazy to look it up

 

[Bejasus]

try here for sailing rigs.

 

[smee]

A ketch has the mizzen in front of the rudder stock, a yawl has it behind the rudder stock.
If it was based on steering position there would be a lot of yetchs or kawls!!
My boat has its steering position in front of the mizzen mast, however the rudder stock itself is aft of the mizzen, therefore it is a ketch!

 

[jonjo]

[ QUOTE ]
A ketch has the mizzen in front of the rudder stock, a yawl has it behind the rudder stock.

If it was based on steering position there would be a lot of yetchs or kawls!!


[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed. A Nicholson 38 ketch would be a yawl based on the wheel steering position. The rudder stock definition needs further refinement to be where you would fix a tiller otherwise the Nich 38 would still be an ambiguous case.

 

[chippie]

I think the steering position definition harks back to tiller steered boats where there was no steering station remote from the tiller or rudderpost.

 

[Guest]

Yawl = mizzen mast behind rudder post

Ketch = Mizzen mast iun front of rudder post

It has nothing to do with helm position or wheel.