when is a boat too small to need a license

[dylanwinter]

As some of you may know I have been sailing the duck punt on the Aylesbury arm of the canal system.

I then thought that I would take it for a dip in the Thames which runs fairly close to my house

I had assumed that I would have to pay for a license to anyone who accosted me at the chosen launch place - but the chances are, this being January I would be unlikely to see anyone from the Environment agency outside of the comfort of a portacabin.

After the briefest of exchanges about where to launch the boat on the Thames Forum I realised that I would have to buy a license for the duck punt or be regarded as a waterborne tresspasser and all round bad egg.

So I decided that I would have to find a portacabin and give a man from EA £7.00 for a six day license.

In the end, the thought of spending the first half hour of my alloted sailing time finding an EA man I gave my credit card details to an organisation called Canoe England who have charged me £37 for a year''s license to almost everywhere in in the UK canal and River system.

I have just printed oout my membership details. That is the beginning and end of my relationship with Canoe England.

The £37 is great value - as long as I spend a lot of days this year on the inland system - in a sailing canoe

Tomorrow I will sail for about two hours. I have no idea if I will sail the duck punt again this year on inland water.

Am I cad for taking an unlicensed sail on the Aylesbury Canal in the first place and would I have been a complete bounder for taking the punt for an unlicensed saiil across Port Meadow or along the reaches at Kelsmcott.

Needless to say I always license and third party insure the slug -

it is a big ugly boat with an engine

but it does seem to me that a canoe should be small enough to sllip under the bureaucratic wire. It is the moost minimalist of water craft. What about a wave ski or an inflatable canoe - some of which are excellent. I have seen lots of them being used on the canals and rivers. Do they have to be licensed? Does a lilo need a license?

What does happen to the £37 tomorrows sail is going to cost me

Be gentle with me chaps. I am in a moral dilemma - I ponied up because of peer group pressure. Does this make me a bad and/or weak man

Dylan

 

[Searush]

Some get their jollies by avoiding such payments, others fret & cannot enjoy being on the water "illegally". BWB is about to become a charity - ie Govt funding will stop. I expect that at least part of your joining fee will go to BWB to help cover their running costs. Thank you for helping to keep my local canals in working order.

I don't think that many canoes use the canals & most that do, simply do odd short journeys away from locks to avoid officialdom & licences.

 

[dylanwinter]

so is that a good thing

Some get their jollies by avoiding such payments, others fret & cannot enjoy being on the water "illegally". BWB is about to become a charity - ie Govt funding will stop. I expect that at least part of your joining fee will go to BWB to help cover their running costs. Thank you for helping to keep my local canals in working order.

I don't think that many canoes use the canals & most that do, simply do odd short journeys away from locks to avoid officialdom & licences.

my kids had canoes - as did I as a child

it is how I got intersted in the water.

is it a good thing that if they use canoes then they have to hide from the authorities

I think it is a really interesting point.

We have a boat tax regimein the UK that reaches right down to canoes. What I would really like to know is what proportion of that £37 actually goes into keeping the system running and what proportion goes into the bureaucracy

 

[Searush]

Portable unpowered £43.78
Prompt payment £39.40

Taken from the BWB site, so I think you have done OK with them, even if they take an admin fee off it.

 

[dylanwinter]

so the price of the license caries according

Portable unpowered £43.78
Prompt payment £39.40

Taken from the BWB site, so I think you have done OK with them, even if they take an admin fee off it.

so the price of the license varies according to who I buy it from?

just imagine if vehicle road tax was sold the same way - get a better deal from tescos than from sainsburies

D

 

[VicS]

so the price of the license varies according to who I buy it from?

just imagine if vehicle road tax was sold the same way - get a better deal from tescos than from sainsburies

D

Not so sure it applies now but there was a time when you would have got a better quality one from Sainsbury's.

BTW I have to pay £3.30 harbour dues on my little dinghy in Chichester harbour

 

[dylanwinter]

Blakeney Harbour is still free

Not so sure it applies now but there was a time when you would have got a better quality one from Sainsbury's.

BTW I have to pay £3.30 harbour dues on my little dinghy in Chichester harbour

I understand that Blakeney harbour is still free

but I presume that there are not many places where you can sail or paddle for free

certainly not anywhere inland

and maybe not that many estuaries or harbours

seems a shame to me...

I am relatively affluent and can afford £37 for a license I print out on my own computer

Dylan

 

[Bobobolinsky]

So The Slug, sorry Princess is not going on the inland waterways? You could have licensed the punt as a "tender too" comes out at about £15 for the year

 

[dylanwinter]

inland

So The Slug, sorry Princess is not going on the inland waterways? You could have licensed the punt as a "tender too" comes out at about £15 for the year

Good plan....

although

The other problem is that the slug would have to pass a safety test for a year long license

they need to replace the whole fuel line with bits that have an ec stamp on them, seal up the bog and chuck out the gas ring

plus the costs of the inspection

all round the slug is regarded as being too dangerous for use inland other than a month at a time

I did pay £40 for a month's license for the slug on the Witham last year and then never used it

I am not sure that I am likely to spend much time on the inland waterways controlled rivers this coming year

- although you never know

Dylan

 

[Searush]

You need to check with Lakey, but I have used canoes on the lakes without a licence. Of course I may have just been lucky to get away with it. There are no charges for canoeing the wier at Chester, but that is the "limit of tidal waters" & there may be charges for heading upstream & I'm pretty sure rowing boats pay a licence.

Scotland is where you want to be for canoeing, there is a right of free access to land & water there so not many places where you will get charged - probably only the Crinan, Calley & Clyde-Forth canals.

I used to sail on Llyn Crafnant up in the hills W of Llanrwst, but that was only free cos it was too far from anywhere for it to be policed. Lovely spot tho.

You have the makings of a follow up to KTL here, sailing the punt on every bit of navigable inland water in the UK. Given your rate of progress in the Slug, you may need to be thinking about recruiting a young apprentice by the time you get to Scotland just to complete KTL. Can Rebecca hold a camera while sailing?

 

[aquaplane]

You need to check with Lakey, but I have used canoes on the lakes without a licence.

I think you are right there.
Unpowered boats don't need a license, that may include sailing dinghys, rowing boats certainly don't.

 

[Little Rascal]

What does happen to the £37 tomorrows sail is going to cost me...

Dylan, actually going through the Britsh Canoe Union is quite a worthy thing to do in my opinion. They do a lot of work trying to keep access open on smaller rivers that are only of interest to canoeists and duck puntalists. There are long running big dust ups in places where landowners and fishermen are trying to stop small boat access.

I had one situation kayaking on a Scottish loch where we were questioned and harrassed despite the legal right to be there. We reported it to the SCA (the Scottish equivalent of Canoe england) who were very helpful and clarified our legal position.

So I would say you can at least rest easy that you have done a Good Thing and not been ripped off.


Jon

 

[dylanwinter]

Took it on the Thames above Radcott

Had a wonderful afternoon - the wind was coming from the East so I sailed up river and then when it died at sunset I drifted back down

It was so cold that I had ice accumulating on the bottom of the boat

no idea how that can happen

the light was lovely and the punt sailed beautifullu.

I am learning more about the steering oar

in many ways it iis better than a rudder

I will post a new film in the mornng or late tonight

Dylan



D

 

[Searush]

Ice in the boat & not on the river sounds unlikely but there are several good reasons why it may happen;

The river is flowing & has slight warming from the movement.

The boat is wooden & therefore an insulator, so boat can be colder than the river.

Water in the boat may be slightly cooled by evaporation.

Air temps fall quickly, but ground temp retains warmth for a while, the river is touching more ground than air, the water in the boat is much more affected by the air.

The river is a large volume of water that "stirs" itself as it flows, the pool in the boat is a tiny volume of static water & only requires a small amount of latent heat to be removed before it freezes.

So, yes the bilge water may well freeze in an open boat.

 

[timbartlett]

...I gave my credit card details to an organisation called Canoe England who have charged me £37 for a year''s license to almost everywhere in in the UK canal and River system....

What you have done is joined the English sedtion of the British Canoe Union (BCU). It's a bit like the paddlesport equivalent of the RYA.

One of the benefits of membership is that it has negotiated deals with many of the navigation authorities (such as British Waterways and the Environment Agency) to gain exemption from licencing requirements for its members. Of course BW, EA, et al don't just give away their authority to demand money ... Canoe England has to hand over hard cash in exchange for the privilege.

For many people, the membership fee is a good deal. For others, it isn't. It's not compulsory.
If you'd rather pay your money direct to a quango, you can. Or if you'd prefer to pay it to an organisation that campaigns to keep canoeing and kayaking free from grasping greed and meddlesome bureacracy, you can. (Not that I'd try to influence anyone's opinion either way, of course! )

 

[dylanwinter]

ice on the outside

Ice in the boat & not on the river sounds unlikely but there are several good reasons why it may happen;

The river is flowing & has slight warming from the movement.

The boat is wooden & therefore an insulator, so boat can be colder than the river.

Water in the boat may be slightly cooled by evaporation.

Air temps fall quickly, but ground temp retains warmth for a while, the river is touching more ground than air, the water in the boat is much more affected by the air.

The river is a large volume of water that "stirs" itself as it flows, the pool in the boat is a tiny volume of static water & only requires a small amount of latent heat to be removed before it freezes.

So, yes the bilge water may well freeze in an open boat.

the ice was on the bottom of the boat on the outside when I pulled it in

 

[dylanwinter]

canoes

What you have done is joined the English sedtion of the British Canoe Union (BCU). It's a bit like the paddlesport equivalent of the RYA.

One of the benefits of membership is that it has negotiated deals with many of the navigation authorities (such as British Waterways and the Environment Agency) to gain exemption from licencing requirements for its members. Of course BW, EA, et al don't just give away their authority to demand money ... Canoe England has to hand over hard cash in exchange for the privilege.

For many people, the membership fee is a good deal. For others, it isn't. It's not compulsory.
If you'd rather pay your money direct to a quango, you can. Or if you'd prefer to pay it to an organisation that campaigns to keep canoeing and kayaking free from grasping greed and meddlesome bureacracy, you can. (Not that I'd try to influence anyone's opinion either way, of course! )

I spent large chunks of my youth messing with old canoes

never ever remember anyone demanding money to allow me to play in the water

although joining is not compulsory it does seem to em that to use a canoe anywhere you have to ppay some-one

If my son - an impecunious student - wants to take the punt out somwhere then he will have to pay £37.

It seems to me that given the level of youth unemployment then people could have a lot of good cheap healthy fun messing with canoes - but they would have to pay the equivalent of a whoole week's unemployment to get permiission to take it on the water

makes me a bit sad

Dylan

PS - is the duck punt really a canoe or am I cheating

I have posted three fairly large images of the duck punt rig

the boat is set up more or less the way I want it

I am really loving the sailing oar and the movable pegs

so controllable

here are the images

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/duck-punt-rigging-dylan-winter-blog-30th-jan/

I have created a swinging seat/backrest

works pretty well

all round really pleased with the little boat

 

[electrosys]

I think it's a bloody shame that there isn't an exemption for minimal craft. On the French Canal system any craft less than 5m is exempt - so why not here ? That kind of policy might encourage youngsters to seek out enjoyment on the water, rather than ....


... does anyone else ever have those days when you really can't be arsed to finish a sentence ? It's like you basically know what you want to say, but the right words don't make it all the way to the brain.

 

[timbartlett]

makes me a bit sad

TBH, it makes me more than "a bit sad": the sheer grasping greed of modern officialdom makes me bl00dy livid . But apparently I'm not allowed to say so in case it offends someone. (Still do, though!)

Prime example (IMHO) is the "Cam Conservators" who charge £35.90 for a small canoe or kayak to use their 7miles of river. By their standards, that's generous: a rowing dinghy is £43.50 and a canoe over 5m is £71.84. (and BCU exemptions are not accepted!)

That's why I applaud the likes of the RYA and BCU who manage to fight bureacracy on its own terms. They may not win every battle, but they win more than they would if they didn't fight at all.

 

[skpt]

In the good old days you had to pay to go through locks in any kind of craft. I read somewhere that because an intrepid canoeist like yourself had purchased a ticket to navigate a virtually derelict canal in the preceding year nasty old british waterways couldn't actually destroy the canal as was their want at the time. So you are in some way keeping navigation going with your small contribution. So well done.